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+--- Thread: Fabulous Free Market Deals (/showthread.php?tid=750)
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Harrisonized - 2009-03-04
Stereo Wrote:You would even consider keeping it?Perhaps.
Stereo Wrote:Glad I don't live in your area.Whoa now, slow down there. Don't make such assumptions.
Stereo Wrote:I've ripped people off before (if an item is cheap in the FM or they drop traded it, I'm not gonna leave it), if they ask for the item back I return it. It's not that difficult.Eh? Nobody asks for things back. That's why I even use the MTS, cuz it's pretty much anonymous.
Stereo Wrote:When people trade me and offer items below their sale value, I agree and then pay the full price after they accept the trade. It may not be as profitable, but it makes me feel a lot better about my moral standards.As FrozNlite said, that's not profit at all. That's just a bs way of spending your money.
The only real way to make money in this game is to invest. Otherwise, you're just another worker, and thus, you will remain a worker, until your brain somehow evolves through Lamarck's Principles.
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Stereo - 2009-03-04
FrozNlite Wrote:May not be as profitable? That's not earning you ANY profit at all, unless you're lucky enough to suddenly be in possession of an item that will inflate by some degree.
Well, when I say "market value" I mean what I wanted to pay. If I toss it in my store for 50% higher and someone buys it, that's their choice. I'm usually better off selling it in that situation, cause the price I want to pay is generally near the minimum of what I can find them in the FM for, and I can just go out and buy more.
That said, most of what I buy is for personal use and doesn't get resold until I'm not using it anymore (ie. excess scrolls, obselete gear), so it's not bought with profit in mind. If I sell it for half what I buy it for, I'm happy.
Fair trade is not BS
It's not ok to rip people off because they're at a disadvantage to you (new to the game, can't find buyers, etc.) If you know what something is worth, tell them.What's wrong with working for money and actually producing it? All marketers do is shuffle the money around and make sure that there are no good deals for people who need them. When I hunt and get drops, or do PQs and get rewards, I add value to the game.
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Harrisonized - 2009-03-04
Stereo Wrote:Well, when I say "market value" I mean what I wanted to pay.We'll take the gold seal cushion from the earlier pages for example. If you bought that thing for 50m, and by your moral standards, you'd pay him 50% more out of guilt, that's still not the 500m market value that the seal cushion carries.
Stereo Wrote:If I toss it in my store for 50% higher and someone buys it, that's their choice.So why does the same principle not apply to 50% lower? Logic goes both ways. If you toss it in your store for 50% lower and someone buys it, that's their choice.
Stereo Wrote:I'm usually better off selling it in that situation, cause the price I want to pay is generally near the minimum of what I can find them in the FM for, and I can just go out and buy more.That's how I sell it for. That's how most merchants sell for, unless they're someone rich enough to afford waiting for a long time for something to sell.
Stereo Wrote:That said, most of what I buy is for personal use and doesn't get resold until I'm not using it anymore (ie. excess scrolls, obselete gear), so it's not bought with profit in mind. If I sell it for half what I buy it for, I'm happy.So let's say you bought a glove atk 60% scroll for 5m, with the intent of using it, and then suddenly you feel like you don't want it anymore. You'd be happy with me buying it at 2.5m and "ripping you off"? I smell contradiction.
Stereo Wrote:Fair trade is not BSI view everyone as equals. Everyone has the brain and the resources. Nobody's truly at a disadvantage in FM or in MTS, because level and power of your character doesn't apply in the market. As I had already said, there's no excuse for ignorance.
If they can't find buyers, it's natural that they lower the price. That's how supply-demand economics works. When the demand becomes low, so does the price.
Stereo Wrote:What's wrong with working for money and actually producing it?What's wrong with it is that it's too slow.
Let's say this:
You graduate from college and become a 9-5 (8 hour) worker.
You get x amount of money on your paycheck monthly and you spend y amount of money per month.
Over time, you accumulate money n(x-y), where n is the time that elapsed.
No matter how great your n(x-y) is, you will stay as a person in the 9-5 working class, until your n(x-y) is enough for retirement, and then when you outlive your accumulated n(x-y), you will be bankrupt.
The only way you will get beyond what you can earn is to invest. You don't necessarily have to scam people to invest.
Stereo Wrote:All marketers do is shuffle the money around and make sure that there are no good deals for people who need them.That is an extremely laughable statement. You don't like seeing other people getting the good deals but you're pissed when you can't find them.
Stereo Wrote:When I hunt and get drops, or do PQs and get rewards, I add value to the game.Technically, you are not adding value to the game, you are taking it away. When the supply becomes numerous, such as what happened quite visibly during the gacha box event, the value of that particular item drops.
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Stereo - 2009-03-04
Harrisonized Wrote:We'll take the gold seal cushion from the earlier pages for example. If you bought that thing for 50m, and by your moral standards, you'd pay him 50% more out of guilt, that's still not the 500m market value that the seal cushion has.Wouldn't pay more than 500k for any chair in the game. So in that case if its market value is 500m I'd be ripping him off by about 0.1% of the real value.
Quote:So why does the same principle not apply to 50% lower? Logic goes both ways. If you toss it in your store for 50% lower and someone buys it, that's their choice.I put stuff in the store in case someone needs them (opportunity cost for availability), not cause I want to sell. If I want to sell, I do go 50% lower, and usually it sells fast.
Quote:That's how I sell it for. That's how most merchants sell for, unless they're someone rich enough to afford waiting for a long time for something to sell.
So let's say you bought a glove atk 60% scroll for 5m, with the intent of using it, and then suddenly you feel like you don't want it anymore. You'd be happy with me buying it at 2.5m and "ripping you off"? I smell contradiction.
If while I was holding it, the market value of GA60% dropped to 3m then yes, I would sell it to you for 2.5m. I'm talking about natural changes in value, not turning around and selling immediately for lower than what I bought it for.
& there's a difference between 5mil vs. 2.5mil and the majority of stuff in here. There's so much variation in some item prices that a 50% difference would barely be noticed. When it's in the 90-95% off range, something's obviously wrong with the seller, and I'm not gonna burn him on the deal for it.
Quote:Technically, you are not adding value to the game, you are taking it away. When the supply becomes numerous, such as what happened quite visibly during the gacha box event, the value of that particular item drops.situation 1: 1 person has a 4 atk cape
situation 2: 10 people have a 4 atk cape
Which of those is there more total wealth? The second one. Adding items to the economy just shifts the balance toward item value, meaning the number of mesos per item decreases, because there is not an equivalent increase in the number of mesos. Only the total value of the items in the game increases.
Quote:That is an extremely laughable statement. You don't like seeing other people getting the good deals but you're pissed when you can't find them.I don't like seeing someone buying every overall int 60% and putting them up for 40mil each. Whether they got a good deal doesn't even matter, they can sell for any price.
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Harrisonized - 2009-03-04
Stereo Wrote:Wouldn't pay more than 500k for any chair in the game. So in that case if its market value is 500m I'd be ripping him off by about 0.1% of the real value.No you'd be ripping him off by 99.9% of the real value, which would go against your moral values that you claimed you had, but don't. Wouldn't he be pissed that you "scammed" him out of 99.9% of what he deserves?
Stereo Wrote:I put stuff in the store in case someone needs them (opportunity cost for availability), not cause I want to sell. If I want to sell, I do go 50% lower, and usually it sells fast.Imagine if there were a market in which people only sold for availability. Then Maple would barely have progress at all and all your items would be crappily scrolled. Economy is the equivalent of progress, and hinderance of that would be hinderance of server as a whole.
Stereo Wrote:If while I was holding it, the market value of GA60% dropped to 3m then yes, I would sell it to you for 2.5m. I'm talking about natural changes in value, not turning around and selling immediately for lower than what I bought it for.Then I'd still be ripping you off 500k by your standards. "If you know the price, tell them."
Stereo Wrote:& there's a difference between 5mil vs. 2.5mil and the majority of stuff in here. There's so much variation in some item prices that a 50% difference would barely be noticed. When it's in the 90-95% off range, something's obviously wrong with the seller, and I'm not gonna burn him on the deal for it.No. Most of the items have a very defined value attached to them. There's only so much variation because people hope to make higher profits.
Imagine this:
A row of glove atks, 18 of them for 5m.
The next best is 5.3m.
The seller knows that the 18 glove atks WILL sell. Then his will become the "cheapest" price and thus the definition until someone else puts for 5m or people just don't buy for 5.3m.
Stereo Wrote:situation 1: 1 person has a 4 atk capeYou're not seeing the total picture.
situation 2: 10 people have a 4 atk cape
Which of those is there more total wealth? The second one. Adding items to the economy just shifts the balance toward item value, meaning the number of mesos per item decreases, because there is not an equivalent increase in the number of mesos. Only the total value of the items in the game increases.
Situation 1: one person has a 4atk cape. The price is set at 100m for that cape.
Situation 2: ten people acquired 4atk capes. Thus, one person, wanting to sell his cape, has to reprice his cape to 95m, and the next one to 90m, and so on until it's been accepted by the general public that x mil is the price.
And, the total value of the items in the game does not increase. In fact, it decreases because of the tax attached to trades. Also, if values only increase, there would be no balance and we'd have a huge abundance of items in our market. That's why the dark scrolls were such good Nexon creations to control the economy.
And lol, you think deflation is a good thing?
Stereo Wrote:I don't like seeing someone buying every overall int 60% and putting them up for 40mil each. Whether they got a good deal doesn't even matter, they can sell for any price.Guess what, doing that isn't sustainable, because as more people find overall int, they'll eventually bring down the price. As long as there are people selling at a lower price, the person trying to monopolize the overall int scrolls cannot sell his scrolls and eventually he will run out of the supplies and will go out of business. With most of the mass bought goods, this cannot possibly happen because the decreased supply will eventually be replenished. If you're annoyed at why the overall int 60%s are so high in price right now, blame Nexon for making it rarer than other scrolls, because as of now, the supply is quite low because of people USING them, not repricing them.
Stereo Wrote:Whether they got a good deal doesn't even matter, they can sell for any price.So why not just sell glove atk 60%s for 1m then? Why sell them for 5m? Why buy them when you see them at 1m and reprice them to 5m? Why not sell everything you own at 1 meso or whatever the NPC price so you don't contribute to this forced inflation?
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Stereo - 2009-03-04
Harrisonized Wrote:And lol, you think deflation is a good thing?As someone with a steady income (I earn the same amount training no matter what the price of atk capes) I definitely do.
Quote:Guess what, doing that isn't sustainable, because as more people find overall int, they'll eventually bring down the price. With most of the mass bought goods, this cannot possibly happen because the decreased supply will eventually be replenished.As people find overall int, they'll put it up for 40mil too, and then everybody pays more.
As long as people keep buying them as fast as people are finding them, it's quite sustainable. They're consumed on use, so the supply is not always increasing.
Quote:Also, by the same logic, why not just sell glove atk 60%s for 1m then? Why sell them for 5m? Why buy them when you see them at 1m and reprice them to 5m? Why not sell everything you own at 1 meso or whatever the NPC price?
If everybody would sell items to me for npc price, I'd sell items to them at npc price. There's no glory in owning a billion mesos and not even having a 6 atk WG. Items are everything. Mesos are worthless except as a facilitator of trading items.
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Kaasoljoyyx - 2009-03-04
Harrisonized Wrote:Do you believe in the yes?
Now I need a PC.
SW says 9/7 is 150m. I wonder how much 8/7 is...
![[Image: maple0001e.jpg]](http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8991/maple0001e.jpg)
An 8/7 just sold in bellocan for 160m.
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Harrisonized - 2009-03-04
Stereo Wrote:As someone with a steady income (I earn the same amount training no matter what the price of atk capes) I definitely do.As stated already, when you're a 9-5 worker, you'll remain one, unless you trigger the events that will bring you more money. Don't speak against people earning more money than you just because they can. If you wanted more money, that's called jealousy.
Stereo Wrote:As people find overall int, they'll put it up for 40mil too, and then everybody pays more.As long as there are people selling at a lower price, the person trying to monopolize the overall int scrolls cannot sell his scrolls and eventually he will run out of the supplies and will go out of business. With most of the mass bought goods, this cannot possibly happen because the decreased supply will eventually be replenished. If you're annoyed at why the overall int 60%s are so high in price right now, blame Nexon for making it rarer than other scrolls, because as of now, the supply is quite low because of people USING them, not repricing them.
Stereo Wrote:As long as people keep buying them as fast as people are finding them, it's quite sustainable. They're consumed on use, so the supply is not always increasing.No, the supply is decreasing. If the supply were increasing, then that would lower prices.
That's not sustainable simply because repricing to 40m isn't realistic and people won't buy them. If you're trying to inflate the market like that, the most you can get is a couple of mil before people just stop buying and you lose out.
Stereo Wrote:If everybody would sell items to me for npc price, I'd sell items to them at npc price. There's no glory in owning a billion mesos and not even having a 6 atk WG. Items are everything. Mesos are worthless except as a facilitator of trading items.So suddenly we're going to become horse and mule traders again? Money is not worthless. Money is an indicator, or representation of how much an item is worth. Otherwise, if you try to trade glove atk 60% scrolls for overall int 70% scrolls, you'd need to trade 6 overall int 70% scrolls for 5 glove atk 60% scrolls and it's just a hassle.
You can't call money worthless, because money is worth as much as it can buy.
Kaasoljoyyx Wrote:An 8/7 just sold in bellocan for 160m.Thank you. Unfortunately, I have it in my shop for 123,456,789 and I still have no offers.
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Stereo - 2009-03-04
Harrisonized Wrote:So suddenly we're going to become horse and mule traders again? Money is not worthless. Money is an indicator, or representation of how much an item is worth. Otherwise, if you try to trade glove atk 60% scrolls for overall int 70% scrolls, you'd need to trade 6 overall int 70% scrolls for 5 glove atk 60% scrolls and it's just a hassle.
I don't care if it's 5mil or 600 mesos.
If overall int 70% are worth 5/6 as much, then they are 500 mesos each.
It's still equivalent, just on a smaller scale. Money is useful because it can be traded for items and redistributed (5:6 values, 1 item for 3, etc.), it's not inherently valuable.
& as for 9 to 5 vs. "investment" it's not jealousy, it's a lifestyle. I won't be a part of ripping off noobs, it's not worth the money. I realize my value system is kinda different from your typical capitalist "pineapple the peons, I'm a grab as much cash as I can get and it's their own fault they're poor".
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Harrisonized - 2009-03-04
Stereo Wrote:I don't care if it's 5mil or 600 mesos.We're not talking about values, we're talking about representation. Money isn't worthless in the fact that it can be traded as a value for something.
If overall int 70% are worth 5/6 as much, then they are 500 mesos each.
It's still equivalent, just on a smaller scale. Money is useful because it can be traded for items and redistributed (5:6 values, 1 item for 3, etc.), it's not inherently valuable.
Stereo Wrote:& as for 9 to 5 vs. "investment" it's not jealousy, it's a lifestyle. I won't be a part of ripping off noobs, it's not worth the money. I realize my value system is kinda different from your typical capitalist "pineapple the peons, I'm a grab as much cash as I can get and it's their own fault they're poor".There is a major contradiction here (bolded/underlined). If you're "ripping off noobs" (by your standards), then it's their own fault that their poor. And lol, it's not like people don't have brains. They willingly sold it to you. That's enough to consider it a legitimate trade.
A scam is something gained by deceit. As mentioned in the last page, no deceit was involved.
Please think before you speak. Your logic is completely flawed and it would appear that you're only speaking through anger. No wonder you sympathize for those who don't or can't think for themselves.
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Stereo - 2009-03-04
Harrisonized Wrote:Please think before you speak. Your logic is completely flawed and it would appear that you're only speaking through anger. No wonder you sympathize for those who don't or can't think for themselves.
To be honest I'm not sure where I contradicted myself. You point it out and it doesn't look like a contradiction to me.
Quote:And lol, it's not like people don't have brains. They willingly sold it to you. That's enough to consider it a legitimate trade.What's enough for you to consider it a legitimate trade is not enough for me. I won't accept unfair trades.
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Harrisonized - 2009-03-04
If you're poor, who's fault is it? Don't put the blame elsewhere. You're accountable for your own actions.
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Pikachu - 2009-03-04
Holy crap, lets get back on topic o_o.
I bought 3 illbis @ 6 million each. (SS will be provided later)
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Deviant - 2009-03-04
Pikachu Wrote:Holy crap, lets get back on topic o_o.
I bought 3 illbis @ 6 million each. (SS will be provided later)
Thats standard price in khaini, i dont know about Scania o-o
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Stereo - 2009-03-04
Harrisonized Wrote:If you're poor, who's fault is it? Don't put the blame elsewhere. You're accountable for your own actions.
I don't see why financial success should be based on willingness to steal from others.
It's not really a diverse talent is it? Where else is stealing encouraged? (and yes, taking something without paying for it is stealing)
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Goals - 2009-03-04
Stereo Wrote:I don't see why financial success should be based on willingness to steal from others.
It's not really a diverse talent is it? Where else is stealing encouraged? (and yes, taking something without paying for it is stealing)
Honestly, some people are just hopeless. It's not even the buyer's fault most of the time. I consider decieving the seller into thinking something's cheap is a scam but I don't consider it a scam if the seller is willing to sell the item for cheap on his own. If you don't buy the item, some other merchant will. That's how it goes in MS. Some of the sellers repeated sell cheap knowing that they're getting ripped off. (yes I talk to them)
Many times it's the seller's stupidity, not stealing at all. Some people don't give enough damn about this game to smarten up and sell for market price.
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Harrisonized - 2009-03-04
Stereo Wrote:I don't see why financial success should be based on willingness to steal from others.Holy crap. Stop calling it "stealing".
Steal - To take without right or permission.
I have every right to pay that much for the items if the person sells it for that low.
Stereo Wrote:It's not really a diverse talent is it? Where else is stealing encouraged? (and yes, taking something without paying for it is stealing)I paid for it. I paid what was asked for. All deals are final. The end.
Stop trying desperately to argue that it's stealing because it's not. This:
Goals Wrote:I consider decieving the seller into thinking something's cheap is a scamis stealing.
This:
Goals Wrote:but I don't consider it a scam if the seller is willing to sell the item for cheap on his own.is not. Get it right Stereo. dictionary.com if you don't even know the meanings of common words such as "scam" and "steal".
~~~~~
Let's get back on topic please and end this discussion because people arguing that we "scam" are being pointless and redundant, not to mention that they're not very convincing in any way.
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Avenge - 2009-03-04
white scroll for 2mil is definitely not a steal! it's a fair deal! i don't see why i don't see white scrolls for 2mil more often!
Fabulous Free Market Deals - randompeep - 2009-03-04
Only hole in the argument is this:
Quote:No, the supply is decreasing. If the supply were increasing, then that would lower prices.No, it wouldn't. The law of supply and demand applies in the real world, but not so much in MS. If x item is rare, and demand for the item is great, prices won't go down, because people would continue to buy the item at the same price, even if the supply goes up. The only reason price goes down in MS is if demand for the item decreases, and demand for Overall INT won't do that ever, or at worst very little.
Fabulous Free Market Deals - Harrisonized - 2009-03-04
Avenge Wrote:white scroll for 2mil is definitely not a steal! it's a fair deal! i don't see why i don't see white scrolls for 2mil more often!If you're trying to be sarcastic, it is indeed a fair deal because the person set it up at that price.
Let's stay Walmart mispriced a reclining chair that was $50 at $5, and then you see that and you buy two of them. By law they have to give the chair to you for $5 each, because it was their mistake and not yours.
randompeep Wrote:No, it wouldn't. The law of supply and demand applies in the real world, but not so much in MS. If x item is rare, and demand for the item is great, prices won't go down, because people would continue to buy the item at the same price, even if the supply goes up. The only reason price goes down in MS is if demand for the item decreases, and demand for Overall INT won't do that ever, or at worst very little.So you're saying that in Maple, there's only a demand and not a supply issue? Because that was not the case with the Gacha box event. The demand for Pink capes remained the same, yet the supply caused the prices to drop.