xBTAx Wrote:Well, this got interesting.

I'm not sure who to trust here. There's no way to verify that anything Meta said is an actual result, since Mas is dead and Corn's obviously someone that Meta would want to put suspicion on. Corn's claims are weird, since if they're totally accurate, Meta has to be getting random results, since that's the only way to justify both Mas and Corn. If they're not, Corn's similarly either random (to give Holypie the benefit of the doubt here) or backwards.

What's more likely is that one of them is lying, and I'm thinking it's more likely to be Meta. Alternatively, they're both lying and this is some mad bussing going on to make us trust whoever doesn't get lynched so they can lead us astray in the next day. I don't think that's as likely, since I'd be surprised if Sega was the only cop-esque role, but it wouldn't be too strange if an actual second cop held back on claiming for the same reason Corn did (especially now that these two claims were made).

So for now, I'm going to go with my gut and [vote B] MetaSeraphim.

Holypie Wrote:Agreed, and I think Island A should vote for VerrKol to test Corn's claim, also because he's pretty suspicious. Unless VerrKol has an ability that's more beneficial than a confirmed cop. Otherwise, the sacrifice is probably worth it. [vote B] MetaSeraphim

Holypie Wrote:Not necessarily, it validates against random or paranoid cop. Also, you're guilty. There's no other guilty reads from any cops anywhere. If this works, the town gets a confirmed cop, and potentially two mafia dead. Right now, you're just making your guilt all the more apparent.

Olsi Wrote:It seems me you verrkol and polantaris are innocent, judging from votes and how openly we are working together, right now the only one not on the same page as us is niernen. Are best bet on this island would be him if we had to vote someone off by a long shot I think, if he turns out to be pirafia we can safely assume Island A would be innocent filled right?

As for Island B i think BTA and Hoylpie have some interesting points and I myself am suspicious of meta and to a lesser extent Corn.

Thoughts?

VerrKol Wrote:I'm only guilty if you believe he's a cop and he's telling the truth. Those are big IFs, especially since island B residents are more likely to be pirates since none of have been found there so far. Don't forget I voted to lynch our only pirate kill thus far.

ChaoticCJ Wrote:I still think that Niernen is our best bet, even with Corn and Meta's information. He really hasn't helped much anyways...

As for Island B and the mafia, I started off thinking the mafia was Holypie because all of his votes have ended in an innocent's death including the ones in the night. Corn's information has made me more suspicious of him than anything. Right now Meta is probably dead, because he would have been locked in by the mafia. The only reason I think that Meta is innocent is because if the mafia wanted him dead it would be easy to lock a 3/1 right now. Just some things to think about.

Holypie Wrote:Okay then, I'm not going to ask you to reveal your role, but please tell me, do you believe that your ability is worth more than a potential pirafia kill AS WELL AS a potential confirmed cop? If you do, then please by all means, save your own skin. Just know that it means the pirafia will probably win. Unless, you are a pirafia, which I seriously believe. Also really only the first if matters because the second one is a direct consequence of that. But I digress. It doesn't really matter if no pirafia have been found on island B so far? It's been mentioned several times that the pirafia might be stacking to one island in order to cap the potential pirafia deaths to one per day and guaranteeing an innocent lynch.



Seriously guys? Just because Niernen isn't helpful doesn't mean that you IGNORE A COP'S INVESTIGATION. Also can you explain what you mean by my votes ending in an innocent's death in the night?

I'm putting everything on the line for this, because I think it's right. Besides, it's very unusual for a pirafia to counterclaim a cop. The much more common scenario is that a pirafia is backed into a corner and comes out as a cop as a last ditch effort to live for a while longer, and then the real cop counterclaims. This isn't all the time, but I think this is what's going on now. If you think I'm suspicious because I've suddenly been posting a whole lot more, it's because I'm having a lot of fun and scenarios like this are why I play mafia. I think this is great but you guys should really kill VerrKol. Damn if I'm wrong I'm going to look so guilty.

Polantaris Wrote:I'm also iffy on you, Holypie, considering your ignorance towards Meta's information. Just because Meta didn't say you were good doesn't mean you aren't, but your ignoring of the information makes you more suspicious.

Holypie Wrote:Seriously guys? Just because Niernen isn't helpful doesn't mean that you IGNORE A COP'S INVESTIGATION. Also can you explain what you mean by my votes ending in an innocent's death in the night?

I'm putting everything on the line for this, because I think it's right. Besides, it's very unusual for a pirafia to counterclaim a cop. The much more common scenario is that a pirafia is backed into a corner and comes out as a cop as a last ditch effort to live for a while longer, and then the real cop counterclaims. This isn't all the time, but I think this is what's going on now. If you think I'm suspicious because I've suddenly been posting a whole lot more, it's because I'm having a lot of fun and scenarios like this are why I play mafia. I think this is great but you guys should really kill VerrKol. Damn if I'm wrong I'm going to look so guilty.

VerrKol Wrote:Except this late in the game we can't afford kill off any innocents because the pirates could very quickly reach a majority. Killing either Corn or Meta confirms the other is a cop unless you think they are both mafia and up to some serious shenanigans? The pirates can't be stacking on island A because no one has switched islands since day 1! If we make the basic assumption that there are 4 pirates and that they began evenly distributed across both islands, there is 1 more on A and 2 on B. It's possible there are fewer, but I consider it highly suspect that you seem to think there is one or none on B. You are still ignoring that Polantaris and I are the only two to vote for a confirmed Pirate. Why would a pirate lynch another pirate with only 2 votes?

You're ignoring a cop's investigation all by yourself. You ignore that Meta believes Corn is the pirate, but since he says you're innocent he must be the legit cop!

You're logic is horribly inconsistent and I no longer believe you are a mere survivor.

Let's add up the facts.
1. You have voted to lynch several innocents
2. You back the "cop" that says you're innocent
3. You finger one of 2 people who voted to lynch a pirate

1+2+3 = Holypie is a pirate likely backed by Corn (and maybe Niernen since he's defending him)

Polantaris Wrote:I want to point out some thoughts I've been having.

1) If we are to believe both Corn and Meta, we had a total of three Investigators. Sega was an Investigator (who was lynched), and now both Corn and Meta claim to be investigators.
Sega was a special Investigator, that could only investigate someone who had switched islands, while Corn claims to be an Investigator that can only investigate when they do not vote, and Meta just claims to be a flat out investigator.

What seems odd here? The fact that, if both Corn and Meta are not liars, we have three Investigators? Why does that seem odd to me? It sounds way too high, I guarantee one of them is a liar.

Polantaris Wrote:2) When Zelkova was pointed out (by me), he immediately jumped on VerrKol. While I have nothing against VerrKol, we should remember that a pirate scheme could be to intentionally lay blame on someone else to make them appear innocent. I'm not saying that this is the truth, but it is certainly a possibility, albeit a small one. Zelkova could have felt ousted, and intentionally set up a scheme to make VerrKol appear innocent so that they could win. Once again, I have nothing against VerrKol, but I'd probably do that myself if I were mafia and realized that I was screwed.

Polantaris Wrote:3) To be completely frank, all of Niernen's posts have been completely useless. And when brought up to blame, simply said, "Oh I couldn't do anything to convince you!" Doesn't that sound just like how Zelkova responded? Also, throwing in the towel almost immediately when there was over 24 hours left to convince us against it? Weird, right?

Polantaris Wrote:4) Holypie; We have conflicting cop stories here.

Meta says that Corn is bad.

Corn says VerrKol is bad.

If Corn is good, Meta is bad and VerrKol is bad. If Meta is good, Corn is bad and VerrKol is good. They cannot be both right, as one claims the other is bad. Which do you think it is? Personally, I think Corn is bad. Why? Because we already had an Investigator with a qualifier for investigating. Having two would be weird, as there's usually one flat out Investigator that has no restrictions (aside from interventions). This would imply towards Meta over Corn, which means Corn is bad and VerrKol is good. Corn also tried to make excuses for his ability, instead of just pretending to forget to vote. Plenty of people have forgotten to vote, so why did Corn feel the need to create a precedent for his Investigating abilities unless he intended to claim to be good all along, but not really be? Why the shenanigans?

Not only that, but saying both Meta and VerrKol is bad at once would imply that nearly all of the mafia has been revealed at once. Convenient, isn't it?

Above even that, Corn replies second in the day, saying that he would post his thoughts later? Why? Except to gauge the field and intentionally start getting people against each other? I believe Corn is Mafia, and I believe you should be against him.

Either way, even if we're wrong, one of those two are Mafia, which means that we get a confirmed kill either way, it just might take an extra day.

Polantaris Wrote:5) My Conclusions:
Niernen and Corn are both bad. I think they should both be voted for, and since they are on opposing islands, it's possible to get both.
If Corn is good, then we confirm Meta is bad and can get him next.
If Niernen is good, he wasn't contributing anything anyway so we didn't lose that much, because at this rate we're likely to vote off the wrong person anyway.

I'm also iffy on you, Holypie, considering your ignorance towards Meta's information. Just because Meta didn't say you were good doesn't mean you aren't, but your ignoring of the information makes you more suspicious.

Oh and...

6) Even if Corn is right and we kill him, he's probably tonight's target anyway. If he's not, one of the more investigative players is. Either way, we're going to incur some serious losses tonight one way or the other.

ChaoticCJ Wrote:Polantaris basically explained it best, but lets go down the list.

ChaoticCJ - I am a survivor which was pretty obvious when I voted for Zelkova.
Niernen - As Polantaris explained, has not been all to helpful. By not joining the discussion is a threat that is left unchecked.
Olsi - Possible pirate mafia but with much less exposure and a good vote record it doesn't seem so.
Polantaris - Voted for Zelkova, which pretty much confirms survivor.
VerrKol - Same with Zelkova, even if pirate, much less of a threat than Niernen.

Corn - The cop thing was a total surprise. I thought he was innocent till he said that.
HolyPie - Voted for TheBirds (Died Night 1), ImagineAll, and Sega. All survivor, so your voting record isn't something to be proud of.
MetaSeraphim - The cop thing was again a surprise. In all honesty with Corn it is hard to tell.
xBTAx - With all of island B it is really hard to tell...


If I had to guess, right now the mafia would be Niernen, Corn, and xBTAx.
__________________________

Okay wait I had more explanation but a quick question...

You said that we would "IGNORE A COP'S INVESTIGATION" and go after Niernen. Corn's same investigation found Meta innocent...but you voted from him...which doesn't make sense...it would actually make much more sense to go after BTA. Even Corn seems like a better target than Meta since you don't want to "IGNORE A COP'S INVESTIGATION." Right? Did I miss something?

VerrKol Wrote:Why would a pirate lynch another pirate with only 2 votes?

Niernen Wrote:So you get a free pass by screaming "look guys, we killed a pirate, obviously we are good!"

Olsi Wrote:You arent giving a better argument. People are writing walls of text and you type one sentence, at the moment it seems like holypie is the one defending you instead of yourself.

Polantaris said it well, I believe we on Island A are at a split between verrkol and niernen, the worst case scenario is that niernen is innocent and we kill verrkol the next night right? As for Island B you guys are currently a mess. I dont really trust anyone on that island, but i guess we will find out by the end of today who the pirafia members are.

Holypie Wrote:Maybe he just doesn't feel like playing, which isn't really too surprising given his record over the past couple of days, also being your primary reason to lynch him.

Holypie Wrote:Okay I mentioned this previously, but having two "qualified" investigators makes more sense to me from a balancing perspective than a full out cop and a fairly weak cop. This is because the investigator is basically the most powerful town role, having a full investigator (standard) on top of a partial investigator who can give the town any information at all would be very unbalanced in favour of the town. Exactly, why would Corn make excuses as to not being able to vote IN THE BEGINNING of the day, rather than at the end saying "Oh crap I forgot to vote" or just not posting at all if that's the case. It makes even less sense for a mafia to say "Welp, I'm not going to vote for the entire game to make the village believe that I'm a gimped cop huehuehuehuehue". Realize that this would have been the beginning of the game before Sega had died.

Holypie Wrote:Corn won't die tonight, I can guarantee that. Me on the other hand, well, we'll see.

Holypie Wrote:For the last time, just because you've voted for a mafia doesn't make you clear automatically! Here's an article on the thing http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bussing

Silent people aren't really a "threat" at this point in time when we have much bigger fish to fry. Hell you're still going after silent people (the reasons I voted the people I did). Don't forget (as you are all conveniently doing), VerrKol, you have voted with Zelkova to lynch Words, who was innocent.

Holypie Wrote:Okay I'm going to ask again one last time, what are all of your full names? I am Oliver Ollie.

Polantaris Wrote:Then he should opt out, like Dusk did. We have subs for a reason. Dusk opted out in the Discussion thread, there's no reason Niernen can't.

Polantaris Wrote:I disagree. Having two cops that are limited severely weakens the Survivors, and considering they only get so many days having them weakened is just making the game that much easier for the Pirafia to win, especially since Sega's ability was VERY limiting. It would have been useless for 90% of the game anyway since people only moved on the first day. There's no guarantee people will move, and thus that ability is far too situation based to be part of the full Investigation team, in my opinion. A very possible situation is the one we have here, and therefore Sega wouldn't even be able to do anything.

Polantaris Wrote:Silent people can very clearly be a threat. If I didn't call out Zelkova, I don't think he would have gotten lynched, because only one other person voted for him. If VerrKol is part of a bussing play, that just means that there would be even more pirafia left, because the bussing would have never occurred in the first place. The simple fact of the matter is that there's more than 2 pirafia, and as such there's no reason to be lynching VerrKol right now when there are far more suspicious candidates.

Polantaris Wrote:Yes, Bussing happens, but considering there's more than a few other people who are acting suspiciously, it's not an important fact right now. In a day, sure, but right now there's far worse going on, like the dual cop issue, both of which are on Island B so you need to figure that out. One of those two are pirafia, and in my opinion Corn has more against him than Meta does. I can do nothing but offer my opinion, which you're clearly not going to take, so really why bother more than this while I'm not on that island?

Polantaris Wrote:Lucy Lola. I support the request for everyone to submit their names.

Have to go to bed now, I won't be back before the end of the day, and I'm not changing my vote, so if everyone decides Niernen is not worth the lynch, then figure out who is quickly.

Holypie Wrote:Doesn't it seem more likely for there to be 2 handicapped cops (can only investigate people who change islands, and can only investigate people when not voting) than one handicapped cop and a full cop? Additionally, MetaSeraphim hasn't posted at all today aside from his cop claim. This (amongst other factors) leads me to believe that Corn is the true cop.

ChaoticCJ Wrote:Okay this is the part that makes me think you are a pirate, although most evidence says you are not. IF you do think Corn is the true cop why are you voting MetaSeraphim? Corn specifically said he was innocent. It would actually make much more sense to go after xBTAx.

Corn Wrote:Honestly speaking I'm thinking Meta is a Godfather (appears innocent on checks), because it doesn't make sense at all that he's innocent, unless maybe I'm insane.