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+--- Thread: False bannings galore. (/showthread.php?tid=62188)
False bannings galore. - ShinkuDragon - 2013-02-15
i'd like to first point out that i'm not for favoritism at all, if tyler did abuse the glitch as said, then whatever he gets he deserves, that said though.
like eos said, i feel that the repercussion for those that abused this glitch is too much. an example would be that time when people could make ultimate adventurers/explorers VIA HACKS, not even by a mistake of the game, by hacks, which is a bannable offense. all that was done in the end was delete the hacked characters, not ban the whole account (and on that note, SEVERAL of these hacked UA's survived) the punishment for hacking being less than abusing a glitch in the game? i'd understand if they had the same punishment, but abuse>hacks?
also, and i am quite certain that you know it's true Girasol, so i'll just state it like it is without sugarcoating, nexon in the past has provided massive examples of having a terrible banning/auto-sorting system, the Zelkova ban when he was just playing, the very UA hack where a few friends lost characters that existed since before 2009 (thankfully they got those back, all of them), random bans due to lag that people get, you can't expect everyone to suddenly take nexon's word when they say "we banned this guy because he abused" the doubt is already within us. especially since he was a volunteer and so vocal against abusing any kind of exploit or glitch, as dumb as it were.
i can't vouch for tyler's legitimacy, i don't know him, but i can't vouch for nexon's ability to ban exploiters either, this is the main issue to me, unless whatever it is that proves tyler's guilt is shown, the community will be torn. and even then, it still will be because of my first paragraph.
a bit of asskissing here, but well deserved. as dustin said, you're one of the few mods i like around, because you actually are taking the time to discuss and talk with us, and not only about events and such, but also these more "delicate" topics. hope that doesn't change.
edit: adding to the above: if you did release the logs, i doubt anyone would believe tyler, mainly because as you said, what good is there to get a contributing member banned just to save some face? nexon has lost a lot of face in the past already, saying "i'm sorry, we were wrong" once more wouldn't be such a big deal if tyler actually was innocent
False bannings galore. - Girasol - 2013-02-15
See Wrote:So I don't want this to sound too negative, but you keep responding about Tyler, but what I personally would like to hear about isall of the bans given to innocent players. I know you're reasoning on him, but please give me some reasoning or something for the others who did absolutely nothing.
I really can't comment on this, because it's an individual account issue. If a ban was unjust, it will be released by CS. Even if a ban was just, sometimes CS gives leniency anyway (and I already said Tyler isn't eligible per our policy).
False bannings galore. - Mazz - 2013-02-15
Personally I can't believe he even had the audacity to suggest he should be unbanned as a result of his 'contributions' to the community, especially after lying about it... if you break the rules, you should be punished. Plain and simple.
False bannings galore. - Girasol - 2013-02-15
KhainiWest Wrote:I'm well aware of it, I do appreciate your input, it was made clear by Hime that he's boned for a lack of a better term. But, you wanted our opinion, there it is
EDIT: No one is holding you accountable for it either, at least anyone with half a brain, eh southperricans.
And I understand that. And it is definitely insightful and I thank you for talking with me honestly.
False bannings galore. - Curtiss - 2013-02-15
Girasol Wrote:I completely understand that. Say I released complete raw data logs, and Tyler then says we falsified them. Then what?
It will ALWAYS be a back and forth. No matter what we say or do, we will always be accused of lying.
I understand that players do not always trust the game company. I have been in your shoes (I have been online gaming since 1998!) I have felt wronged by a game company (SOE) I have definitely felt that some things were unfair. But I have also been on the other side, specifically in cheats investigation for other games (though that's not my current job, thank God), for well over five years. You become very jaded. =/ And yet I still have faith in every player, and I still try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt...and I try to go the extra mile even though it's not my job (I am NOT Customer Service, guys), because I HATE to think someone could be wronged.
But there is no way for us to "win" this, nor do we really want to (what pleasure is there in "winning" an online argument against your own player, anyway? It is a rotten feeling.)
We aren't going to release Tyler's account. We aren't going to change our policy just for one person. He was well aware of the rules, and he still broke them.
Fair enough. While I do think the punishment is excessive you're at least willing to discuss your reasoning and I don't believe you would have taken this stance if Tyler hadn't done anything. That being said you might want to help out the rest of the people who are truly falsely banned because people too afraid to even logged in or who are banned in the first place aren't paying customers.
False bannings galore. - Curryishott - 2013-02-15
Girasol Wrote:And I understand that. And it is definitely insightful and I thank you for talking with me honestly.[MENTION=10355]Girasol[/MENTION];
Is there any possible way to alert Customer support to remove me off the filter spam list?
False bannings galore. - Tyler - 2013-02-15
-removed because it didn't seem to matter- ...
False bannings galore. - Bomber - 2013-02-15
Curryishott Wrote:[MENTION=10355]Girasol[/MENTION];
Is there any possible way to alert Customer support to remove me off the filter spam list?
Stop trying so hard Mike.
You got banned ages ago. You shouldn't be trying to take advantage of the false banning confusion.
False bannings galore. - Curryishott - 2013-02-15
Bomber Wrote:Stop trying so hard Mike.
You got banned ages ago. You shouldn't be trying to take advantage of the false banning confusion.
You mistaken me with my brother, Jake. I provided sufficient evidence and was ignored. Your friend got permanently banned also (Grimamoire) and it was under the same ban that we both received.
False bannings galore. - KhainiWest - 2013-02-15
Curryishott Wrote:You mistaken me with my brother, Jake. I provided sufficient evidence and was ignored. Your friend got permanently banned also (Grimamoire) and it was under the same ban that we both received.
Girasol doesn't have that type of authority. Stop trying to pull the attention to the thread towards you, as your case has been long since hopeless.
False bannings galore. - LadyJenJen - 2013-02-15
[MENTION=10355]Girasol[/MENTION];
I want to start off by saying I completely understand your point of view on this as you are an employee. You and the rest of the staff try incredibly hard to take care of issues with this game and still follow company policies and we as a community appreciate that. What is happening now is that someone that said community cares about was banned. He being wrongly banned isn't in question at this point. Mistakes were made and that's that.
What we as a community are asking now is that you give a second to chance to someone who has done more good than harm to the overall MapleStory experience. As a GM, I'd expect that your view should be that the players want this game to be a safe, cheat free environment. You'd be absolutely right. We desire nothing more than that. However, despite constant efforts, MapleStory is does not currently have that environment. There are many bugs and issues in the game, exploits, hacks, you name it.
As a player, it's upsetting. As spectator from a professional view, it's understandable. My intentions are not to bash Nexon and/or the MapleStory staff. I applaud your efforts for trying to take care of a game that has many attackers in terms of ruining the gaming experience for everyone else. Your efforts are done for us, the community, to give us the game that we want to play.
With that same concept in mind, that same community who constantly wants justice for the abused and bans for the cheaters asks for this: While there is no doubt the exploit was abused by Tyler intentionally or not and that there is no doubt he was not fully honest, we as a community see it just enough to allow him to come back, to have a second chance. We're not asking this because he's special, we don't want him to have special treatment as that is unfair to everyone else. We're asking this because of all the people who have wronged this game, Tyler is the least threatening of those offenders.
I know I don't fully nor do any of us fully know exactly how banning goes about, but despite you and your staff's best efforts, there are huge abusers still actively playing this game (whether they weren't banned for this particular exploit or previous exploits is not the point) who are causing more and more damage daily. If I had to chose who I wanted to be around in my gaming world still, I'd say Tyler every time compared to the others who cheat without care, cheat to get an advantage over others, and cheat to bully and destroy this game.
Tyler is not that person. He's made a mistake, but he's never intentionally tried to harm this game or this community. He's done many wonderful things to help others and not himself. He's not a selfish person in the slightest. He's very smart and kind for such a young age. You've given him many wonderful opportunities and things to do for someone so young. But he is human and he is young. It's quite understandable for him to have been very scared by all of this, and thus keeping the whole truth from you and or Hime. For that I'd blame his age and nothing else. He had no ill intentions to break your trust in him.
Punishment is deserved, but I believe this punishment is too severe for a first time offender, especially considering some of the more notable cheaters still walk freely in this game. We're asking that you give him another chance. The community feels that maybe a temporary ban is a more suitable punishment that way policies aren't broken, punishment is given, and everyone walks away happy.
If that cannot happen, I'm sure professionally and from my personal conversations with him about what's gone on that he'll understand. You're a good team doing the best you can to make the overall community happy. Life goes on, but this is what the current community is asking.
I wish for the smoothest out -come positive in all of this. I only hope that the staff, community, and Tyler can all come to a good peaceful conclusion in all of this.
False bannings galore. - Girasol - 2013-02-15
LadyJenJen Wrote:What we as a community are asking now is that you give a second to chance to someone who has done more good than harm to the overall MapleStory experience.
What you're asking would be completely unethical, let alone against policy. Now if we unbanned EVERYONE who did the exploit...that would be one thing. But we aren't going to do that, either.
Tyler can always remain in the community should he wish it. There's nothing stopping him or any other person who abused an exploit from making another account. I know that sounds harsh, but that is the reality of it.
Guys, I am done talking about Tyler. And I need to get back to work.
Thanks for being patient with me this morning as I responded to you as best I could on this issue. I know my answers weren't all that you wanted, but they are all what I have to give. And no hard feelings. You guys are rock stars. 
False bannings galore. - Question - 2013-02-15
Illegit player will alway try to cover it up and try find a way to confuse and lie other
Let say Nexon ban 50 legit player and 50 illegit player .... do you think those 50 player illegit player would say im a hacker? no they would to become like those 50 legit player
would saything and do anything and try anything to be like legit untill nexon find the proof of who really is legit and not legit
False bannings galore. - Muppy - 2013-02-15
Girasol Wrote:I really can't comment on this, because it's an individual account issue. If a ban was unjust, it will be released by CS. Even if a ban was just, sometimes CS gives leniency anyway (and I already said Tyler isn't eligible per our policy).
Anyone has the copypasta that says they've released an account because it was their (Nexon's) own fault? I don't think I've ever seen it.
I'm not being sarcastic.
False bannings galore. - Curtiss - 2013-02-15
Question Wrote:Illegit player will alway try to cover it up and try find a way to confuse and lie other
Let say Nexon ban 50 legit player and 50 illegit player .... do you think those 50 player illegit player would say im a hacker? no they would to become like those 50 legit player
would saything and do anything and try anything to be like legit untill nexon find the proof of who really is legit and not legit
You really need to stop making assumptions. Like, really. Seriously.
False bannings galore. - ResistGreen - 2013-02-15
Question Wrote:Illegit player will alway try to cover it up and try find a way to confuse and lie other
Let say Nexon ban 50 legit player and 50 illegit player .... do you think those 50 player illegit player would say im a hacker? no they would to become like those 50 legit player
would saything and do anything and try anything to be like legit untill nexon find the proof of who really is legit and not legit
You really shouldn't get involved.
False bannings galore. - Question - 2013-02-15
Curtiss Wrote:You really need to stop making assumptions. Like, really. Seriously.
that is the fact .... most of the time
... cuz in reality it the same too... if ppl do something bad they most likley going to cover it up and lie and accuse other
ResistGreen Wrote:You really shouldn't get involved.
just cuz u said so ? everyone has it own opinion and this is my
also this is a free world ... we can do whatever we want
False bannings galore. - See - 2013-02-15
Question Wrote:Illegit player will alway try to cover it up and try find a way to confuse and lie other
Let say Nexon ban 50 legit player and 50 illegit player .... do you think those 50 player illegit player would say im a hacker? no they would to become like those 50 legit player
would saything and do anything and try anything to be like legit untill nexon find the proof of who really is legit and not legit
So it's better to say all 100 are guilty?
False bannings galore. - LoveVictim - 2013-02-15
Well I was a little surprised that they decided to ban instead of deleting these exploited characters. Hell, it was a year ago exploiters were able to create a level 50 Ultimate Adventurer using a packet modifier and the player was able to edit the hair of these exploited character into any of their choosing by sending packets.
Nexon's first response?
Delete all exploited level 50 Ultimate Adventurers. No bans.
Result: Some MAIN characters were deleted, including accounts that had no involvement in the exploit.
Nexon's second response? Un-delete characters they previously deleted. No bans again.
Result: Players kept their exploited Ultimate Adventurer, and didn't have to pay for the hair, eyes, and other things. Hell those exploiters were able to get AND keep the female Kitty hair before Nexon officially released it to the public via Royal Hair Coupons.
False bannings galore. - FoolsLove - 2013-02-15
I haven't logged on in weeks because I'm honestly scared to lose my account that's existed since day 1.
Love the game to death, have since I first opened the game back in 2005, and would love to play it in my free time again, but there's just something seriously wrong when legit players are in fear of being banned for doing absolutely nothing. :|