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[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Sarah - 2011-04-30
Reported cases =/= what actually happens in either culture and iirc the japanese are even less likely to report thing than Americans.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Haseo - 2011-04-30
Viaje Wrote:K-pop or not, it's disturbing and results in atrocities like this.
(I had the misfortune of having being shown that video earlier this week, making this topic unsettlingly timely.)
I will agree though; getting offended is rather useless since this wasn't meant for us.
This video contains content from SME, which has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds. Sorry about that.
Any alternate links? :f6:
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Haseo - 2011-04-30
Double post, sorry.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Flonne - 2011-04-30
Sarah Wrote:Reported cases =/= what actually happens in either culture and iirc the japanese are even less likely to report thing than Americans.
So you are saying that having over a thousand times the number of cases were reported in the US can be chocked down to "nobody saw it/reported it"? I'm struggling not to mean any offense by this, but you are just digging yourself a...well, hole wouldn't be the correct term, far too shallow for where you are located right now.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Sarah - 2011-04-30
There are many attacks in America that do go unreported, but there also many false reports. The Japanese are a lot less vocal about these things, however, meaning that any evidence based on actual reports isn't representative of any real truth as to what is going on in either country.
http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/iatl/ejournal/issues/volume1issue1/gray/
One of many studies indicating that women in Japan are highly unlikely to report any sort of sexual assault for varying reasons.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Flonne - 2011-04-30
Sarah Wrote:There are many attacks in America that do go unreported, but there also many false reports. The Japanese are a lot less vocal about these things, however, meaning that any evidence based on actual reports isn't representative of any real truth as to what is going on in either country.
http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/iatl/ejournal/issues/volume1issue1/gray/
One of many studies indicating that women in Japan are highly unlikely to report any sort of sexual assault for varying reasons.
Adult females in Japan have issues with reporting rape, not children. The buildup of stereotypes has not reached the point where they accept the situation, yet. The only issue they have with gathering statistics on child rape in Japan is trying to get information out of the girls later in life, and, on that note, they have started using a questionnaire in middle/high school in Japan that, even if they try to lie about it, would signify that fact upon study, since a lot of the questions overlap in a way that what people in this thread have already termed "an underdeveloped mind" would not be able to fully comprehend. I'm sure some of them try to trick it to keep the offender safe in a fushizen case, but very few would be able to do so successfully.
Also, this article mainly goes over the trial portion of the case, not the reports. I was aware that Japan is a heavily patriarchal country that usually will side with the man in court over the woman no matter the circumstances, but again, that has nothing to do with the report itself. Even if they don't go to court over it/the trial bounces, the report will still exist.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Atruya - 2011-04-30
It's a cartoon meant for children, can someone please show me the link with paedophilia? :f6:
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Seanny - 2011-04-30
This thread still makes me queasy to my stomach, for real. im gonna make a post that will make everyone else queasy. I'm pretty much being a broken record but its the only thing i can think of concerning this.
I'm not going to beat around the bush this time (i think) so be ready to hear a dirty detail or two.
Aside from rapists and such threats to people, why SHOULD we be concerned with what turns on other people? No, really. What people wanna get off to is nothing I even WANT to think about. I even don't like needing to think about it just to make this post. I just believe its healthier to just say: I DON'T WANT TO EFFING KNOW. Don't tell me about it, nor will i inquire. Keep it to your damn self or WILLING significant other, and everything is cool.
I already can't unsee the ones i do know of. (Thanks a lot Cracked for the mind-burning knowledge of a car fetish) But i am aware of one thing: All that people are thinking of is getting off. The nastiest way to put it, but you all have been dancing around the subject. Might as well get to it. Morals get brushed under the table and they, to put it in Sim's terms. WooHoo. In the moment, they're not thinking about how wrong/unnatural it is in reality, they're just off in their little fictional world. Then come back to reality and their morals, where they actually have an application and the restraint they provide are of a benefit to the person, and to society.
Is this different from people who watch violent movies or play violent games for entertainment? If yes, how so? Saint's Row for example, it revolves around gangs. People in real life have had their lives ruined by them, some have been killed by them, some had to pretty much keep their kids indoors most of the day to keep them safe, hoping one day they could move out of their infested neighborhood to somewhere they can walk outside freely. Yet, the majority of america's society recognizes it all as a fictional experience we apply little to none of real-world morality to, and take none of the virtual experience back into reality, and consider Jack Thompson an idiot. Has america gone morally bankrupt in doing so? It still appears we hate the damage gangs cause after all.
tl:dr Correlation does not always imply causation, a phrase we've all heard 1 million times. But its my belief here; After Flonne posted those statistics, even with the elements brought up in subsequent posts, the gap is still huge. Even in the more recent study by the U.N: (U.S. 28.6 per 100k, Japan: 1.2 per 100k, for 2009) Then on top of that, regarding of access to porn there's Surprising studies claiming the opposite scenario of it being causation. yes, there's studies to the contrary out there, but the ones saying the opposite outnumber them so far and they are backed with university sources so yeah...
I'm not saying loli stuff shouldn't disturb anyone. Hate it freely if you feel. I'm just saying, even so, its not really anyone's business but their own if they like any sort of fantasy unless it intrudes upon another person, or child's well being and safety. I really don't believe it should actively be thought about, kinda like when someone goes to use the toilet, you just don't think about what goes on in there. and in many cases, may only say as much about them as someone being a fan of violent media. I haven't spit on any Saint's Row developers for supporting gang violence btw... and i don't look down on friends who enjoy the series and are waiting for the newest game.
As far as the video itself, mazefind confirms korea doesn't think it dirty: should one culture 'learn' to get dirty vibes from something another culture does? If it wasn't made with perversion in mind, and the audience in question doesn't even percieve anything perverse, how can they spread sexualization? The only thing they have to do is when, and if it arrives here, edit it to suit North America's sensitivities, of which many finds a lot of stuff sexual.
My last question: If it doesn't threaten the well being,happiness and safety of anyone (self included): how is right and wrong universally defined?
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Flonne - 2011-04-30
Seanny Wrote:Correlation does not always imply causation, a phrase we've all heard 1 million times. But its my belief here; After Flonne posted those statistics, even with the elements brought up in subsequent posts, the gap is still huge.
Yeah, that was my main point with it; I know for a fact that those numbers are false based on the false data pumped into it, from one end or the other, but even with a massive margin for error, what is it that scientists say, "P > .05"? Margin of error is what, like ~10% max? There's no way that even with false data the numbers would be that HUGELY different, especially not with so many tests conducted all pointing to a single answer.
Seanny Wrote:As far as the video itself, mazefind confirms korea doesn't think it dirty: should one culture 'learn' to get dirty vibes from something another culture does? If it wasn't made with perversion in mind, and the audience in question doesn't even percieve anything perverse, how can they spread sexualization?
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - MetaSeraphim - 2011-04-30
Seanny Wrote:As far as the video itself, mazefind confirms korea doesn't think it dirty: should one culture 'learn' to get dirty vibes from something another culture does? If it wasn't made with perversion in mind, and the audience in question doesn't even percieve anything perverse, how can they spread sexualization? The only thing they have to do is when, and if it arrives here, edit it to suit North America's sensitivities, of which many finds a lot of stuff sexual.
MetaSeraphim Wrote:You guys also keep using this "It is okay here so it is okay and you should find it okay as well" really? There are some places in the world where you can legally have sex with 9 year olds, is that okay as well? Should having sex with 9 year olds be legal all across the world? It is an extreme example, but it is basically what you guys have been saying. There are culture differences between South Korea and North America, yeah. But there are also culture differences between North America and the country where you can legally have sex with 9 year olds, and they might find it okay and right, that doesn't make it right.
Don't mind me, just pointing out flaws when whoever makes them. Just because the country it came from doesn't find anything wrong with it doesn't mean it is not wrong. And just to say I am not saying the video is wrong, just making a general statement.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Flonne - 2011-04-30
MetaSeraphim Wrote:Just because the country it came from doesn't find anything wrong with it doesn't mean it is not wrong.
Personally I find that untrue; if it is a release specifically for a certain demographic/area/culture and they find nothing wrong with it, and it wasn't even technically supposed to be here in the first place, then it truly has nothing to do with us and we have no say whatsoever over whether it is right or wrong. I just really don't like that mindset that we can butt into whatever we want and criticize it when it wasn't even for us in the first place.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Fiel - 2011-04-30
Flonne Wrote:Personally I find that untrue; if it is a release specifically for a certain demographic/area/culture and they find nothing wrong with it, and it wasn't even technically supposed to be here in the first place, then it truly has nothing to do with us and we have no say whatsoever over whether it is right or wrong. I just really don't like that mindset that we can butt into whatever we want and criticize it when it wasn't even for us in the first place.
Human sacrifices to gods? Okay! It's part of their culture that isn't intended for us. We have no right to state whether human sacrifices to gods are wrong.
Honor killing? Okay! It's part of their culture that isn't intended for us. We have no right to state whether honor killing is wrong.
Tolerance doesn't necessarily mean acceptance. I can tolerate gay people (tolerance) even if I reject their thinking (being gay) because I am straight. I can also tolerate gay people (tolerance) and accept their thinking (being gay).
Someone can just as easily tolerate this video and reject its suitability. There's no flaw there.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - hadriel - 2011-04-30
You hit the nail there, pal. "Tolerance" is the word. Especially for even more sensitive issues like religion.
Hadriel
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Flonne - 2011-04-30
Fiel Wrote:Human sacrifices to gods? Okay! It's part of their culture that isn't intended for us. We have no right to state whether human sacrifices to gods are wrong.Human sacrifice implies some degree of unwillingness in most cases, but as for honor killings, the person would rather die than spend the rest of their lives in shame. I would say if honor killing is what the person wants, it would be cruel to not give it to them. Sacrificing may be purely based on superstition, but again, if the person is willing, we have no right to deny them that opportunity, either. Life is about living in a way that is beneficial to society, or to break it down even further, living in a way that people will remember your legacy. There is no super importance that should be placed on life itself, its about the end result; a person that willingly gives themselves as a sacrifice is seen as a hero to the people inside the focus group. We are simply piles of synapses and biochemical reactions, the same as any other living organism; the difference is, we can coherently choose to lose our lives for a cause knowing full well the consequences...if I person has made a commitment to that extent, then the opinion of any other person on the planet has no bearing. As for FORCED sacrifice, that is affecting someone negatively within the focus group (the person being sacrificed, and their families), but it still is not our place to intervene unless they request outside help, as it is still not affecting our group until that point.
Honor killing? Okay! It's part of their culture that isn't intended for us. We have no right to state whether honor killing is wrong.
Tolerance doesn't necessarily mean acceptance. I can tolerate gay people (tolerance) even if I reject their thinking (being gay) because I am straight. I can also tolerate gay people (tolerance) and accept their thinking (being gay).
Someone can just as easily tolerate this video and reject its suitability. There's no flaw there.
A contrasting example is suicide bombers. In their case, they are affecting someone ELSE's life, so, as I said before, it has leaked over to our culture and therefore is within the realm of discussion/condemnation for us; even if they are still seen as heroes to the people that support them, it directly affects groups outside of that group.
I understand what you are trying to say, but even in examples that are wholly unethical in this society, we still have no ground to stand on when trying to argue against something that is not made for us to begin with, as long as everyone within the focus group is content with the situation and has not requested any actions from people outside of the focus group. The only singular exception that I can think of would be situations where the majority of the group is so heavily oppressed that they cannot hope to ask for help even if they sacrifice their life to try and get it. There are a few examples of that, but I doubt we need to get into that here, that would just be me going on a tangent of a tangent in a thread that has largely been a tangent to begin with, lol.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Seanny - 2011-04-30
MetaSeraphim Wrote:Don't mind me, just pointing out flaws when whoever makes them. Just because the country it came from doesn't find anything wrong with it doesn't mean it is not wrong. And just to say I am not saying the video is wrong, just making a general statement.
My last question in my paragraph there was 'If it doesn't threaten the well being,happiness and safety of anyone (self included): how is right and wrong universally defined?'
In the example in your post, it can be argued that children have not developed enough mentally to KNOW or fully understand what is and is not a threat to their well-being and safety. And as a result can be logically argued that sex with minors is harmful due not only to that fact, but there's a risk that a resulting pregnancy too early on causes damage to their body via complications.
My point was that the only clear cut, universally-accepted standard of wrong is if it puts the wellbeing, health and safety of one person above those of another. Or if it threatens the safety,health and well-being of Anyone in general, self included.
Robbery = damages the well being of another by taking their property. Same with vandalism here.
Drugs = harms someone's own health. (especially the illegal ones)
Peeping Tom= Harms someone's well-being by compromising their privacy and sense of innocence.
Sacrificing = Pretty darn sure that's a huge threat to someone's safety and health.
But if you take this element away: and think only of actions that don't involve threatening, or harming anyone, what is left to define right and wrong with?
Every example here regarding the culture issue so far has had to bring up something that clearly harms the well-being of another party or themselves for a counterpoint. While these examples are good because they are in fact logically wrong: Is there a solid logical definition outside of that? This is the conundrum of this issue. As the things being argued for here just seem to lack that aspect, a fictional MS character won't be looking back and regretting shaking her butt shamelessly years down the road, everything a pervy artist can draw has no connection to a real person (and if it does, its a subcategory of the Peeping Tom example, and thus would harm someone's well-being), and as long as proper cautions are made so undesiring parties don't come across it accidentally, can't cause them discomfort.
It is on this basis that I say unless it definitely harms someone in the sense i stated above, the morality of anything has very little, if any, logical ground to stand on and past that is more opinion than anything. This includes what goes on in fictional realms such as one's imagination. To that i say, 'whatever floats your boat, I will not judge as it does not concern me,I may not approve of it, but just leave unwanting parties out of it in every sense of the matter.'
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Flonne - 2011-05-01
Full mp3 version in 320KPBS is uploaded on the KR site at http://maplestory.nexon.com/MapleStory/Page/Gnx.aspx?URL=Event/2011/8th/intro at the button ending in a musical note around the center of the left side of the page. Click it, it will pop up with PV and full versions for the nonvocal and vocal versions, the DL link is the rightmost button on each song's tab.
Unless this thread is no longer about MS at all, derp.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - ShinkuDragon - 2011-05-01
Flonne Wrote:Full mp3 version in 320KPBS is uploaded on the KR site at http://maplestory.nexon.com/MapleStory/Page/Gnx.aspx?URL=Event/2011/8th/intro at the button ending in a musical note around the center of the left side of the page. Click it, it will pop up with PV and full versions for the nonvocal and vocal versions, the DL link is the rightmost button on each song's tab.
Unless this thread is no longer about MS at all, derp.
i find weird ho your posts seems to not have anything to do with the thread, even though it couldn't be more on-topic, what has happened to this thread...
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - MetaSeraphim - 2011-05-01
ShinkuDragon Wrote:i find weird ho your posts seems to not have anything to do with the thread, even though it couldn't be more on-topic, what has happened to this thread...
Once you start realizing everything is on-topic you avoid problems like that.
I for one can wait for the next exciting extraction thread and what kind of interesting debates we'll have. This extraction right here was very awesome and neat since we learned a lot of new things about MapleStory. You can't ask for more.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Flonne - 2011-05-01
ShinkuDragon Wrote:i find weird ho your posts seems to not have anything to do with the thread, even though it couldn't be more on-topic, what has happened to this thread...
Aside from that, it really is catchy. Reminds me a bit of denpa style, but with a Korean spin, I mean, aside from the obvious language difference. The non-vocal sounds like an almost exact copy of Latale's BGM style, which is normally a VERY different BGM-style when compared with the norm on MS.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - ShinkuDragon - 2011-05-01
MetaSeraphim Wrote:Once you start realizing everything is on-topic you avoid problems like that.
I for one can wait for the next exciting extraction thread and what kind of interesting debates we'll have. This extraction right here was very awesome and neat since we learned a lot of new things about MapleStory. You can't ask for more.
i do realize it is on-topic, but it's also kind of "off-topic" as this thread was mostly about childs (anime or not) and bootyshakin, with the video acting as a medium to do it
Flonne Wrote:Aside from that, it really is catchy. Reminds me a bit of denpa style, but with a Korean spin, I mean, aside from the obvious language difference. The non-vocal sounds like an almost exact copy of Latale's BGM style, which is normally a VERY different BGM-style when compared with the norm on MS.
i do agree, i can listen to it with my eyes closed, and i recognize some of the most common styles i have seen around thanks to anime's, still, i haven't played latale, so i can't say anything about that, but everyone mentioned how it was so similar to lucky star.