hadriel Wrote:The point about the audience difference is a crucial one, but occasionally there are small gems to be gleaned from comparing GMS and KMS. Concepts and content start from KMS, and they develop it to their ideals, then it's up to Nexon NA to bring it over to GMS and sort of fit it to our ideals. Obviously nothing huge can change, but I'm certain some things like scissors limits etc. for additional options can't be tweaked.

Hadriel

TheBlackMage Wrote:Of course you can't replace it, not that it gives much either way, it's more about the experience.
But that's thing, is experience truly that lacking in GMS? Maybe I am too culturally impaired or something and can't really see many differences, or I just never cared to nitpick.
Thanks for adding the edit about the players, I was focusing on the game and its gameplay than the players, that's the thing honestly, I was just comparing the versions and not the players.
I guess I can't really understand this thing, not that I don't understand, actually it's something else that bothers me about this whole thing, Is maplestory truly unenjoyable by the players of NA/"Global"?
I think Nexon made a decent amount of changes to satsify the players, obviously not enough but we'll see how it plays out later on as the management changed.

KhainiWest Wrote:Closing the gap would not lead to a logical conclusion of raising the gap. The only reason nexon would hopefully make that decision is if a boss requires a higher cap to defeat it. See potential with pink bean. Players will not demand a cap raise unless there is content they cant reasonably clear without a necessary damage cap change.

KhainiWest Wrote:What I'm suggesting is a method for a small group of players to have the possibility of clearing high level content. We don't have that because the gap is too big, the only reason (I repeat) that a damage cap would be "demanded" is if the high level content would REQUIRE a cap increase.

You're making wild and illogical hypothetical progressions. Your method would just piss people off and make them feel scammed to be honest.

Grey Wrote:It doesn't matter if you add free ways to upgrade gear later on, because the people hitting cap are already hitting cap. Your premise that it would upset them assumes that these people are frugal, that they meticulously keep track of their finances so they can just barely hit cap and then they stop, so that they'd care if they could've done it for cheaper if they had just waited. While there are certainly people like that, most of the people at the top are not. Money is a blunt object, they throw money at the game until they get what they want. If they could do it for cheaper, great, but if they can't, they'll just spend more. They aren't just paying to get to the top, but to get to the top as fast as possible. It's somewhat like early adopters with electronics. They'll throw down a ton of money, even though eventually it'll probably be cheaper, just for the privilege of having it, and having it before other people.

On the other hand, if one day you paid a dollar for a candy bar and then the next day you paid the same amount for half the candy bar, you'd probably feel gipped, regardless of whether or not you still needed a whole candy bar or if half was sufficient. It feels pretty bad when something is taken away from you, even if it's clear that things really haven't changed.

I spent quite a bit to be able to solo CRA, and just barely, so when they nerfed Paladins, a bit more to regain the ability. The fact that Star Force makes it cheaper to get stronger barely crosses my mind, in fact, Star Force was one of the major factors in me being able to solo CRA again, compared to the thoughts of "Man, if they didn't nerf me, I'd be doing twice as much damage now". My thoughts on it are literally, with the same amount of money, I could've been capping. That bothers me a lot more than the fact that I can basically do everything I used to do before.

Silver Wrote:Well, as I stated, the damage cap and monster and boss HPs can all be lowered. If I decreased the cap to 25m and also halved the HPs of all monsters and bosses, I don't see the problem there. The players complaining that they had paid for that extra 25m damage just to have the cap reduced... that's sort of like complaining about paying to hit cap just to have more free ways to upgrade later on. And, like you yourself stated, most top players don't really care if they could have had it for cheaper.

Silver Wrote:If a million extra free ways to upgrade equipment are added into the game tomorrow, why won't there be any reason for players to demand a damage cap increase? Furthermore, why won't Nexon be more inclined to increase the cap as a result? The whole notion that some content requires a higher cap is silly because Nexon created that content and hence set the standards for that content in the first place.

Silver Wrote:I dunno, cappers might demand a damage cap increase so they can kill stuff faster. And if more and more upgrade options are added (meaning it is easier to hit cap), eventually people will ask for a damage cap increase as it eventually becomes easier to hit cap whilst not even fully utilizing all those upgrade options. And, again, the notion that anything requires a cap increase is silly - they could just adjust the content itself. Your motive is good, but the method is poor.

Grey Wrote:It's really not the same, for one, people's feelings toward it are not (as I said, it's the difference between taking something away from you and giving things to everyone, one feels like pomegranate, the other's not so bad). Dropping the cap, even if you adjust monster HP, means that you have a ton of excess damage that you no longer have access to, but that you already paid for. What makes you think people won't push for a damage cap increase immediately after they decrease it? Especially since it would mean they could kill bosses much faster than they did before this whole thing because the bosses have less HP now.

KhainiWest Wrote:Let's start with your fallacy, we are talking about a single upgrade system, a system we have a clear understanding and results of, you're arguing against the ideology of it because "WHY STOP THERE? LETS DO INFINITY UPGRADE SYSTEMS TO GET EVERYONE TO CAP".

No one in this thread is suggesting that, a free to play player will always be at a disadvantage, no one is even arguing that either, but the difference is a problem. How do you solve said difference? You reward players who spend time on the game. The people who are already at cap aren't affected. They have invested in the game outside of time, they aren't a variable.

Pink bean was literally unkillable the first 6 months it was in GMS. If you got close you got banned. Nexon pulls that sh`it all the time, only the top .5% uber elitists can actually defeat the LATEST SUPER BOSS MONSTER, the people with 4 sets of gear that are all hyper max'd or whatever. So no, this isn't a foreign concept, it's actually a large practice by nexon, so your entire argument is on f`ucking NOTHING. It's been PRACTICED.

Why aren't they demanding for one now then? The cappers would be unaffected by the suggested upgrade system. You're also assuming nexon listens to the f`ucking community, which is totally true right, since this thread f`ucking exists. Your entire argument is subjective analysis of your limited outside understanding/limited knowledge of nexons history evidently. My argument is based on the realities of the walls they currently face, who holds them up, and a substantial memory of the correlation of how the f`uck things happened.

So no my method is goddamn perfect, it gives people who invest time in the game a reward of getting a closer gap to the cap or to players at the cap, allowing them to do small squads to do f`ucking bosses, said system not affecting those at cap already and haven't changed how they played at f`ucking all. Your idea of capping and proportionally lowering everything is frekin retarded, it punishes those who have spent money, you know, the small group of people who still fund the servers to still function. You reward the community, you don't punish them because of your ineptitude over a long period of time. I mean seriously man this is business 101 for christ sake.

I mean, you do know your argument can be applied to your own goddamn solution right, with the addition of people being pissed off their gear has been nuked?

Silver Wrote:Well yeah... some people would be more upset over a lowering of the damage cap than they would if free methods were introduced. To me, I don't view it as all that different, I would probably be equally pissed at both options. As for taking something away, it's sort of like that but not quite because, really, all your damage does for you is kill something within a certain amount of time and, if boss HPs are also reduced, it doesn't seem that much of a loss at all.

Some people will push for a cap increase afterwards, but it makes less sense to reverse a decision than to press forward with something. The cycle of events would look something like:
Nexon decreases damage cap -> cappers demand a damage cap increase -> Nexon increases damage cap -> unfunded players demand a damage cap decrease -> Nexon decreases damage cap -> ...
Eventually, the damage cap will remain stable, at a point where almost everyone can agree on. Adding more and more methods of upgrade on the other hand only encourages the damage cap to go up, and up, and up.

Silver Wrote:Well yeah... some people would be more upset over a lowering of the damage cap than they would if free methods were introduced. To me, I don't view it as all that different, I would probably be equally pissed at both options. As for taking something away, it's sort of like that but not quite because, really, all your damage does for you is kill something within a certain amount of time and, if boss HPs are also reduced, it doesn't seem that much of a loss at all.

Some people will push for a cap increase afterwards, but it makes less sense to reverse a decision than to press forward with something. The cycle of events would look something like:
Nexon decreases damage cap -> cappers demand a damage cap increase -> Nexon increases damage cap -> unfunded players demand a damage cap decrease -> Nexon decreases damage cap -> ...
Eventually, the damage cap will remain stable, at a point where almost everyone can agree on. Adding more and more methods of upgrade on the other hand only encourages the damage cap to go up, and up, and up.

Silver Wrote:Well yeah... some people would be more upset over a lowering of the damage cap than they would if free methods were introduced. To me, I don't view it as all that different, I would probably be equally pissed at both options. As for taking something away, it's sort of like that but not quite because, really, all your damage does for you is kill something within a certain amount of time and, if boss HPs are also reduced, it doesn't seem that much of a loss at all.
Yep, and a single extra upgrade system encourages a damage cap raise, to a marginal extent. The keyword is marginal. If we add more and more upgrade systems, then the incentive to increase the damage cap becomes higher and higher. Your notion before didn't support this, as you stated "closing the gap would not lead to a logical conclusion of raising the gap". What are you going to say for the next upgrade system? And the next one? How about the one after that?

Silver Wrote:We don't see many players demanding a damage cap raise likely because there just isn't that many players at the cap, and they probably barely hit cap. As the cap becomes easier for players to hit, many of them will likely demand a cap raise because of all the excess damage that they could potentially reach. Rewarding is also punishing and punishing is also rewarding, at least for this case, lol. Never took a business 101 course mate.

Greg Wrote:I havent played MS in a couple of years. Recently Ive become bored and want to again. Figures that I come to this forum, and this is the first thread I see. Not surprised at all. GMS was going downhill 4 years ago! But I still want to play. I'll probably just not.

Ivangold Wrote:I was thinking, why they never did like a 2x exp for party quests?:f6: or even quests :f6:, not much ppl do them since they don't give that much of exp, why would you do PQ in a 2x if a trainning stop with 2x is better(there's HS, kanna and OP attackers or peoples to share the maple)? I wonder if they did 2x or 3x exp for PQ's and quests, people would do more of em.

I remember that LPQ didn't give as much exp as MCPQ, but it have great rewards, or like KPQ giving those bamboo hats at certain rate; quests would actually be done to get some itens(i remember doing the korean town quests to get some itens, like a mace).

Now good or usefull itens won't be given in PQ's or quests in general, at least the itens aren't that good or just won't stay long enough in your character(maybe capes can stay), now you get more stuff from bosses, events or things that require money(gacha, marvel cash shop?).

MuscleWizard Wrote:This game could honestly stand to learn a lot from warframe.

Everything drops damn near everything, progression in power is tied to drops, the pay functionality is used to for cosmetics and convenience, as well as trading top tier mods. Plat's used for trading, the game's credits/"mesos" are used in crafting and upgrading of equipment only and are unable to be used for trading, it solves the issue of credit farming destroying the economy because there's a supply of currency that the players know the relative value of.

it basically turns it from a pay to win into a pay to convenience since it just lets you skip the grind by buying things you can just get anyway, but only from other players that farmed it. you can buy fusion cores on the market, which is the drop used to upgrade mods, but the cost is so exorbitantly high that people know it's not at all viable to do it instead of farm.

Gymleaders Wrote:Progression tied to drops, pay functionality used for cosmetics and convenience, trading top tier "mods"(not sure what that is but sure sounds like the karma scissor system)... I mean it sounds like how MapleStory used to be before they fucked pomegranate up.