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+--- Thread: [KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video (/showthread.php?tid=41142)
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Moonlapse - 2011-04-29
IMO the way to go about this would probably be to compare the rates of child sexual abuse in cultures that have these type of drawings and cultures that do not. Then we could get an idea of how this stuff really effects people.
Quote:That's only makes me want to stuff you full of Loratidine Chlorpheniramine.
Allergy meds? :f6:
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - MetaSeraphim - 2011-04-29
mazefind Wrote:conclusion : culture(include standard about oversexual) in Korea and America is SO different. so, I think... There's no need to debate. :-)
hadriel Wrote:Seriously, go youtube and watch SNSD's Gee. Lot's of hip shaking, lots of similarities with this video. And look - this is meant for the Koreans, by right, and asians. They will see it differently from you because you're not them!
And there's no point flaming the video all because of those 5 seconds and saying that this a totally indecent video.
Apparently you boys aren't seeing it from Sarah's point of view, which is normal, but I feel the need to explain a little.
It isn't so much about the video or the fact that it was made in Korea as it is about sexualizing children in general. Sarah isn't saying the Koreans are a bunch of pedos (I think) because they made it. And while the video was a jumping off point for her most of her outrage comes from the simple fact of making children sexual objects.
You guys also keep using this "It is okay here so it is okay and you should find it okay as well" really? There are some places in the world where you can legally have sex with 9 year olds, is that okay as well? Should having sex with 9 year olds be legal all across the world? It is an extreme example, but it is basically what you guys have been saying. There are culture differences between South Korea and North America, yeah. But there are also culture differences between North America and the country where you can legally have sex with 9 year olds, and they might find it okay and right, that doesn't make it right.
Some of Sarah's points are flawed, but the defense some of you are using is even more flawed. Plus you aren't even understanding most of what she is saying.
hadriel Wrote:So just drop it, will you?
Who are you talking to?
Arroz Wrote:This is hilarious, the derp is strong in these knuckleheads.
You should at least try to form a counter-argument about why people are stubborn instead of "LOL they're stubborn.".
Arroz Wrote:I've never seen so many people uncomfortable about sex and I've lived in the US all my life
Sex? Since when was sex part of this debate? Pretty sure it is about exploiting children.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Moonlapse - 2011-04-29
EDIT: Ignore this post.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - cronnoponno - 2011-04-29
Moonlapse Wrote:Sarah does have a point, though. If you are trying to get sexual gratification from images with childlike features, you are getting aroused by by the same things pedophiles get a kick out of. So I do have a problem with artists that INTEND to portray children in a sexual way in their drawings. However I don't think that was Nexon's original intent in making this video.
No, like was quoted earlier, pedophiles have an attraction to the mental instability of younger people.
Lolicon's simply like the younger looking body, as it avoids adding uneccessary(but natural) fat to the body, among a few other things. Saying this is sexist is like me going to a twilight forunm and saying that women are sexist because they expect all men to be muscley, handsome, and depressed to the extent to where their actions are solely based on catering to the female. That is an unfair argument, everyone can fantasize about things they want.
Need I remind you all that a large majority of Loli's are capable of easily destroying the world in storylines? A good reference that you should all get, would be ETNA from Disgaea, there is nothing ''frail'' or ''weak'' about her, in fact she's arguably more badass than Laharl.
Sarah's argument changes. First it was the oversexualized children, then it was purely for the fact that they had the ''body'' of a child, then suddenly society makes the rules and sees it as wrong so it is wrong, then went completely subversive into other subjects, such as the fact that cultural difference are bullcrap, and that no matter what it is, if it's a nude childs body(which, I can understand it being a real childs body), is not okay to look at. It was my fault I got dragged into the 16 vs 18 argument, so I am not referencing that too far.
Loli's are specifically for the Fantasy Genre, they are not to be confused with actual children in every case. This only happens when actual pedohpiles mix in with the Genre, and the other Lolicons are not to blame. Sarah was clearly referencing, that under all circumstances, if it's a young looking body, it is wrong in every scenario, drawn or not. When there is more complexity to the style than that, and she was insulting a lot of peoples taste.
Sarah's argument seems to be to force this all into submission, it's like when your body finds a virus, and instantly hits the puke button to vomit ALL the insides and nuitritions that was consumed, in favor of destroying a virus that can be destroyed if the damn immune system was doing it's job in the first place. Laws shouldn't be made to force people to think certain ways, or to tell us what's right or wrong, they should be to ''protect''. This is not ''protecting'' anything, it's destroying the freedoms of many people, while in the process POSSIBLY destroying any and all reasons to protect what it was trying to protect in the first place.
Pardon me if I missed a few points of it. I can understand the need to stop actual children from being sexualized, but anime loli's need to be left out of it.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Moonlapse - 2011-04-29
gah, double post.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - CionS101 - 2011-04-29
The "Super Fight" trailer animation was better than this in my opinion.
I rather have an opening that has action in it and not well this, though it is cute I guess.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Arroz - 2011-04-29
MetaSeraphim Wrote:You should at least try to form a counter-argument about why people are stubborn instead of "LOL they're stubborn.".
Sex? Since when was sex part of this debate? Pretty sure it is about exploiting children.
What point is there if everything has already been covered. If you didn't see the giant wall of text from earlier than go back a few pages.
What people consider offensive varies from communities to the different people inside them. As long as the material isn't obscene and doesn't exploit REAL children it is legal at least in the United States.
What am I trying to get at with this? It doesn't matter what you think, nor does it matter what I think. The material in question is fine to have so people can whine all they want but for those who enjoy it they are free to do so as long as what they do is legal.
I don't deal with internet arguments as like this one they dissolve into circlejerks for ideologues where people don't even provide credible evidence so you can't even learn anything from it.
And sex has everything to deal with this debacle as it was the alleged sexualization of child-like images in the video that offended so many people. The exploitation of children especially for prurient interests is illegal. There is no debate there, you're comparing apples to oranges at this point but I can see where the confusion lies in that the argument isn't even consistent.
[SIZE="5"]offensive=/=obscene but obscene =offensive(most of the time)[/SIZE]
inb4 more no true scottsman bullpomegranate
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - hadriel - 2011-04-29
If anything, I don't think the Nexon people who designed it would consider if their video is considered sensitive to pedophiles, or people who would consider these characters dancing as sexual objects. Because truth is, these people are a very small minority, and you can't always predict what does and doesn't trigger them. It's still a cultural perspective - look it's meant for KMS i.e. the Korean (or if anything, the asian) audience. Nexon also cannot predict what is sensitive to the Westerners [and Western pedophiles, that's a whole different level of cultural complexity involved]. So it is not fair to slam Nexon for any sexual connotations - the bum shaking thing I agree, but if it's just because of the bum shaking thing only then no it's not fair. Not a hint of bared skin at inappropriate places, no suggestive actions, no inappropriate language - that's good enough for the majority. How would they know what you think, when you're not part of their scope?
As a second thought, I think Nexon tried too hard to emulate some of the K-pop dancers. They really do dance like that... but of course the close-up shots are... just unnecessary.
So... can we just end this? More than 200 posts on this issue...
Hadriel
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Viaje - 2011-04-29
K-pop or not, it's disturbing and results in atrocities like this.
(I had the misfortune of having being shown that video earlier this week, making this topic unsettlingly timely.)
I will agree though; getting offended is rather useless since this wasn't meant for us.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Fiel - 2011-04-29
Viaje Wrote:Unfortunately, this isn't true.
If it were, then atrocities such as this wouldn't exist...
(I had the misfortune of having being shown that video earlier this week, making this topic unsettlingly timely.)
Wow... those girls can dance. That was awesome.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - ShinkuDragon - 2011-04-29
Viaje Wrote:Unfortunately, this isn't true.
If it were, then atrocities such as this wouldn't exist...
(I had the misfortune of having being shown that video earlier this week, making this topic unsettlingly timely.)
dear lord, even beyonce had more clothes than those girls o.O
*checks pants*
*no boner*
Wo-hoo!
but that is seriously wrong, those girls sure do know how to dance, but there were moments where i went "mother of god" in there, even after seeing the dresses.
but now, in this video, these girls are barely dressed, in the maplestory video, they had a full set of clothes, and yea, ok, miniskirts, but they were much better dressed, if the beyonce girls had been dressed as the maple girls, nobody would have minded the extremely disturbing booty-shakin they did in their video i am sure.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - MetaSeraphim - 2011-04-29
Viaje Wrote:K-pop or not, it's disturbing and results in atrocities like this.
Sarah's input on this is needed right away.
Fiel Wrote:Wow... those girls can dance. That was awesome.
Hey, Paul. How do you feel about what your extraction thread became? In my opinion it is one of your most interesting extraction threads just because.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Fiel - 2011-04-29
MetaSeraphim Wrote:Hey, Paul. How do you feel about what your extraction thread became? In my opinion it is one of your most interesting extraction threads just because.
Total indifference.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Solarboy - 2011-04-29
What a stupid discussion this turned into.
I liked the opening.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - IllegallySane - 2011-04-29
Solarboy Wrote:What a stupid discussion this turned into.
I liked the opening.
Turned into a stupid discussion, yes. However, it's also highly hilarious at the same time because of all the drama.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - ShinkuDragon - 2011-04-29
IllegallySane Wrote:Turned into a stupid discussion, yes. However, it's also highly hilarious at the same time because of all the drama.
indeed, not even the jump patches made such a ruckus, and then he extracts a video of some booty shakin, and SP turns upside down, never change guys, i mean it.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - hadriel - 2011-04-29
(Mini)skirts aren't uncommon for girls in school. In fact... many alter their skirts shorter, because they find that it's too long... (in that they were originally skirts, instead of miniskirts). Some of the skirts don't start off very long anyway.
Hadriel
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - MetaSeraphim - 2011-04-29
hadriel Wrote:If anything, I don't think the Nexon people who designed it would consider if their video is considered sensitive to pedophiles, or people who would consider these characters dancing as sexual objects. Because truth is, these people are a very small minority, and you can't always predict what does and doesn't trigger them. It's still a cultural perspective - look it's meant for KMS i.e. the Korean (or if anything, the asian) audience. Nexon also cannot predict what is sensitive to the Westerners [and Western pedophiles, that's a whole different level of cultural complexity involved]. So it is not fair to slam Nexon for any sexual connotations - the bum shaking thing I agree, but if it's just because of the bum shaking thing only then no it's not fair. Not a hint of bared skin at inappropriate places, no suggestive actions, no inappropriate language - that's good enough for the majority. How would they know what you think, when you're not part of their scope?
Most of the argument isn't even about the video, it was just a jumping off point. Sarah being the vocal point of the argument found the video to be in bad taste, then people came around saying they fapped to lolis and it was okay to fap to lolis and it spawned 4 pages worth of stuff.
Solarboy Wrote:What a stupid discussion this turned into.
solarboy, you aren't allowed to call something stupid. I am sorry.
ShinkuDragon Wrote:indeed, not even the jump patches made such a ruckus, and then he extracts a video of some booty shakin, and SP turns upside down, never change guys, i mean it.
Not even BIGU BANGU got this much action. Hehe, I made a pun.
hadriel Wrote:(Mini)skirts aren't uncommon for girls in school. In fact... many alter their skirts shorter, because they find that it's too long... (in that they were originally skirts, instead of miniskirts). Some of the skirts don't start off very long anyway.
Those females are sluts. I am just sayian.
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Arrol - 2011-04-29
Reaction:
![[Image: 130014639329.png]](http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Arrol/Others/130014639329.png)
What was that? Am I watching Maplestory or an episode of Lucky Star? O.o
[KMS] [1.2.132] New Opening Video - Flonne - 2011-04-30
Viaje Wrote:K-pop or not, it's disturbing and results in atrocities like this.
Extrapolation. Incorrect extrapolation, at that.
Moonlapse Wrote:IMO the way to go about this would probably be to compare the rates of child sexual abuse in cultures that have these type of drawings and cultures that do not. Then we could get an idea of how this stuff really effects people.
Sure, lets take the results from Japan, where lolicon was introduced, and the US.
child sexual assault cases reported
US (2003) 78,188
Japan (1999) 590
child deaths related to abuse (circa 1990)
= 1 United States: 2.2 per 100,000 children
= 11 Japan: 0.6 per 100,000 children
On top of that, nearly all research papers and charts I ran across commented on the extraordinarily low rates in Japan as compared with almost every other country on the planet, which can obviously be seen just by the numbers.
Now, lets take it a step past that and add in adult women as well, as a variable to the experiment.
rapes per 100,000
# 10 United States: 30.2 2006
= 93 Japan: 1.5 2006
Still quite a large difference, especially considering the population density of Japan is much greater than that of the US. Lets take it another step up just for more data on the issue.
attempted rapes
US (2002) 247,730, 40% were raped to completion
Japan (2000) 1287, 6.2% were raped to completion
Take it as you will, but across that many different sites and that many different datasets, I'm pretty sure there aren't many ways you can take that as a sign that Japan's fetish market causes an increased level of rape, lol.