+- Southperry.net (https://www.southperry.net)
+-- Forum: Extraction Stuff (https://www.southperry.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Forum: Extractions (https://www.southperry.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=68)
+--- Thread: [1.2.276] More rebalancing (/showthread.php?tid=21053)
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - Russt - 2009-12-31
IllegallySane Wrote:Wait. Paladins are now the #1 melee attacker with this balance patch? Que?!?! That sort of makes me want to revive my White Knight, or at least remake him.
Dusk's spreadsheet says that 1h Heroes, 1h Paladins, and Spear DrKs weigh in at 105468, 78958, and 103058 DPS respectively.
Taking into account the Blast change, and dividing out the currently applied Holy Charge, base Paladin DPS is 59495.
Adding in the new Holy Charge gives 89212.
Adding in an additive Lit Charge gives 104081.
Adding in a multiplicative Lit Charge gives 111515.
Throwing elemental attributes into the mix complicates things too much, so I'll just leave it at this for now for neutral targets.
And Cactuar, GameMX's thread showed that Combo Barrier and Meso Guard results in 0.3* damage, not 0.5*0.8* damage. That's worth some consideration.
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - Baklava - 2009-12-31
Well I guess we can finally say that Blast lives up to its name, hur dur.
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - Tay - 2009-12-31
Ok, all this is coming to kMS on the 7th.
Says so on the website or whatever, I stole this info from Spadow.
![[Image: adventurersreturn1.png?w=593&h=244]](http://spadow.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/adventurersreturn1.png?w=593&h=244)
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - Baklava - 2009-12-31
Tay Wrote:Ok, all this is coming to kMS on the 7th.
Says so on the website or whatever, I stole this info from Spadow.
See you'd make people freak out if you didn't include this piece of translation.
Quote:Purple Circle: Dont be disappointed if you dont see a change of your job. The transformation of the Adventurer continues!
It's part 1.
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - Hazzy - 2009-12-31
Tay Wrote:Cannnnnnnnn I see a skill table for the new Steal?
Wondering is getting 1 steal at lv30 would be a good idea or not.
I second this request. :[
Also curious about Endure.
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - Dual - 2009-12-31
Phoenix Wrote:Well in the past, with Aqua and Ludi being your only spots, saders had a clear upperhand. But this is no longer the case, since wk's and saders pretty much train at the same spots. Saders get a 1.4 boost for max combo, WK's would get 1.4 from fire charge+whatever how light charge is added. And coma and charge blow are pretty much similar I beleive, well I don't see coma making up for anything here at least. Add to that elemental weaknesses and the difference gets much wider.
It doesn't really matter much because 70-120 isn't exactly hard anymore, but for the sake of balance it's not doing much good there.
WK don't use Charge Blow almost at all because it would be a pain in the ass to recast BOTH charges again for the sake of having 6 second stun.
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - IllegallySane - 2009-12-31
DualReaver Wrote:WK don't use Charge Blow almost at all because it would be a pain in the ass to recast BOTH charges again for the sake of having 6 second stun.
Don't think just that. Spamming Charge Blow sometimes feels cleaner than Slash Blasting away. There's also the question can you Charge Blow once for every 1.5-2 Slash Blasts with the upcoming charge system? I can almost imagine a macro for it:
Fire Charge + Lightning Charge + Charge Blow. Just stand, spam, and put on your Awesome face as you see little mushrooms spin on top of every monster.
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - Lozmaster - 2009-12-31
IllegallySane Wrote:Don't think just that. Spamming Charge Blow sometimes feels cleaner than Slash Blasting away. There's also the question can you Charge Blow once for every 1.5-2 Slash Blasts with the upcoming charge system? I can almost imagine a macro for it:
Fire Charge + Lightning Charge + Charge Blow. Just stand, spam, and put on your Awesome face as you see little mushrooms spin on top of every monster.
Trust me on this, charge blow was useless as an attack with having to rebuff one skill. 2? No way
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - IllegallySane - 2009-12-31
Lozmaster Wrote:Trust me on this, charge blow was useless as an attack with having to rebuff one skill. 2? No way
But..... but I did Charge Blow right after Fire Charge and I reached 88........ (This was ~2 years ago)
Baaaaaw. Looks like I'll just remake my White Knight then. Well he DID have ~80 DEX and didn't have much bonus INT from 10-88. >_>
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - Dual - 2009-12-31
IllegallySane Wrote:Don't think just that. Spamming Charge Blow sometimes feels cleaner than Slash Blasting away. There's also the question can you Charge Blow once for every 1.5-2 Slash Blasts with the upcoming charge system? I can almost imagine a macro for it:It sucks hard Henry. The only reason to ever use it was as a finisher when your charge was running out, using the stun to allow you to recast the buffs. In the time it takes to cast 2 charges and use charge blow, I could have killed a mob.
Fire Charge + Lightning Charge + Charge Blow. Just stand, spam, and put on your Awesome face as you see little mushrooms spin on top of every monster.
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - KaidaTan - 2009-12-31
Russt Wrote:Dusk's spreadsheet says that 1h Heroes, 1h Paladins, and Spear DrKs weigh in at 105468, 78958, and 103058 DPS respectively.Don't you think it's better to use % DPS rather than DPS from an arbitrary set of warrior gear?
Taking into account the Blast change, and dividing out the currently applied Holy Charge, base Paladin DPS is 59495.
Adding in the new Holy Charge gives 89212.
Adding in an additive Lit Charge gives 104081.
Adding in a multiplicative Lit Charge gives 111515.
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - Russt - 2009-12-31
KaidaTan Wrote:Don't you think it's better to use % DPS rather than DPS from an arbitrary set of warrior gear?
Good point. I was thinking there were gear differences, but Heroes and Paladins are the same in that department. DrKs aren't, but for the sake of comparison they aren't really necessary.
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - Lozmaster - 2009-12-31
IllegallySane Wrote:But..... but I did Charge Blow right after Fire Charge and I reached 88........ (This was ~2 years ago)
Baaaaaw. Looks like I'll just remake my White Knight then. Well he DID have ~80 DEX and didn't have much bonus INT from 10-88. >_>
Nah, don't remake it, you need charge blow maxed anyway, prior to lightning charge getting this buff, I'd seriously say everything but fire charge is virtually useless in paladins 3rd job. Lightning was only for bossing (lol) charge blow is...ehh useless until you get ACB later, then it's good, ice charge... maybe ok if you want to train at ice weak stuff now, there wasn't anything when I was at that level. I think I did charge blow after fire charge too.
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - Cactuar - 2009-12-31
Russt Wrote:And Cactuar, GameMX's thread showed that Combo Barrier and Meso Guard results in 0.3* damage, not 0.5*0.8* damage. That's worth some consideration.
... What. So it's additive? Then that means chakra is too? Argh. I have to go test this out now. If that's the case it's (+.5) Meso Guard, (+.2) combo barrier, (+.3) chakra which adds to 100% damage reduction. That makes no sense.
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - zOrpheus - 2009-12-31
It could just be Meso Guard that is additive; everything else that has damage reduction is probably multiplicative.
Chakra active + Combo Barrier + Meso Guard =
(.7)*(.8) - (.5) = 94% damage reduction?
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - Stereo - 2009-12-31
IllegallySane Wrote:Fire Charge + Lightning Charge + Charge Blow. Just stand, spam, and put on your Awesome face as you see little mushrooms spin on top of every monster.
Even a simple macro like Fire Charge + Charge Blow fails to work a big percent of the time. Really not worth it.
And with each Charge taking as long to cast as CB, it goes
341% (1 tick Slashblast)
525% (2 ticks, Fire + CB)
656% (3 ticks, Fire + Lightning + CB)
Note that 3x Slashblast = 1023% with just 1 elemental weakness. This patch destroys Charge Blow's usefulness.
Then again, as before Fire Charge is the #1 massive damage upgrade WKs get. If you have Fire, you're set until level 100+. The 20% buff just means it's always better to get it before Lightning, no matter what elemental mobs you intend to attack.
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - King - 2009-12-31
Dusk Wrote:That would just make them worse while making other classes better. Being wanted for a buff only does not make a class good.
That make no sense at all...why would being able to buff other class make the buffing class weaker?
Drk and mm are only wanted because they can cast hb and se since so many classes out dps them (especially in drk's case) and they are considered "good" class, so why not pallys?
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - Takebacker - 2009-12-31
King Wrote:That make no sense at all...why would being able to buff other class make the buffing class weaker?
Because everyone else gets way stronger than they normally are while you're just as strong as you normally are.
Everyone else getting stronger while you stay the same means you're weaker.
King Wrote:Drk and mm are only wanted because they can cast hb and se since so many classes out dps them (especially in drk's case) and they are considered "good" class, so why not pallys?
Not a lot of classes out damage MMs. Compared to how many classes out damage paladins now.
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - Hazzy - 2009-12-31
Not to mention how godly Dragon Knights where/are in 3rd job. Anyone who played pre4th job should remember how everyone in the upper levels of the ranks was either a cleric or DK. (COUGHTIGERCOUGHFANGBLADECOUGH)
Paladins, on the other hand, have no such advantages in any job. In 2nd they're almost equal to fighters(lolrage), but it's all down hill from there. (Until we get a Neutral resistant, Lightning weak boss, that is)
[1.2.276] More rebalancing - Lugin - 2009-12-31
King Wrote:That make no sense at all...why would being able to buff other class make the buffing class weaker?
Drk and mm are only wanted because they can cast hb and se since so many classes out dps them (especially in drk's case) and they are considered "good" class, so why not pallys?
Let's take current conditions: 550% Blast and 120% Fire Charge.
That comes to 770% on neutral, and 990% on fire-weak.
Heros get 10 orbs (190%) and Brandish (520%)
That comes out 988% to 3 targets everywhere.
Say you turn Fire Charge into a standard party buff.
The Paladin's damage is the same as before.
The Hero now does 1185%(neutral) and 1778%(fire-weak) per target per Brandish.