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+--- Thread: [Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. (/showthread.php?tid=74864)
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - KhainiWest - 2015-08-14
And for those arguing that "GMS IS DOING SOMETHING WRONG BECAUSE KMS IS FINE", are so oblivious to the systems it's hilarious
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - TheBlackMage - 2015-08-14
KhainiWest Wrote:And for those arguing that "GMS IS DOING SOMETHING WRONG BECAUSE KMS IS FINE", are so oblivious to the systems it's hilarious
Not sure if targeted at me or not
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - KhainiWest - 2015-08-14
TheBlackMage Wrote:Not sure if targeted at me or not
I guess that all depends if you agree with the statement
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - TheBlackMage - 2015-08-14
KhainiWest Wrote:I guess that all depends if you agree with the statement
I don't think there's anybody in this thread that truly believes that GMS is doing something wrong completely.
However with that being said I do think GMS doesn't indulge in a lot of the solutions that KR Nexon has offered through the years which from Nexon KR's revenue to popularity do show they are somewhat effective.
Well it isn't that GMS doesn't indulge, I believe GMS has reached a loop that doesn't allow itself to enjoy said solutions.
Have you read my post on page 7? I'll admit I can't pin-point the things that are wrong within GMS, but I can pin-point the errors KMS has made and how it fixed them through time and it saddens me to see it doesn't help GMS to recover.
Are they perfect? No but they are decent and maybe one day MS will be even more fun than it is now/was. I personally enjoy GMS and KMS.
Either way both GMS and KMS have a long way to go honestly, KMS has taken a great shift "recently" thanks to the new director, we'll see how things work out but thus far it's pretty darn good.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - KhainiWest - 2015-08-14
TheBlackMage Wrote:I don't think there's anybody in this thread that truly believes that GMS is doing something wrong completely.
However with that being said I do think GMS doesn't indulge in a lot of the solutions that KR Nexon has offered through the years which from Nexon KR's revenue to popularity do show they are somewhat effective.
Well it isn't that GMS doesn't indulge, I believe GMS has reached a loop that doesn't allow itself to enjoy said solutions.
Have you read my post on page 7? I'll admit I can't pin-point the things that are wrong within GMS, but I can pin-point the errors KMS has made and how it fixed them through time and it saddens me to see it doesn't help GMS to recover.
Are they perfect? No but they are decent and maybe one day MS will be even more fun than it is now/was. I personally enjoy GMS and KMS.
Either way both GMS and KMS have a long way to go honestly, KMS has taken a great shift "recently" thanks to the new director, we'll see how things work out but thus far it's pretty darn good.
The economy is f`ucked less because of the community but rather the exploits that were never cleaned up/attended too. What you don't know is that KMS is the one who micromanages all the decisions you see GMS make, all those massive unbans? That was KMS saying GMS was banning irresponsibly and thats why the population dropped. Botting? They don't know how to handle it since KMS has better methods of micromanaging accounts (SS#).
IT boils down to poor management, there is a reason why GMS had two community managers leave, and the only one that actually got anything done got fired. I think you made that post you aren't/weren't aware of this and just feel like GMS is snobby or something. Culture differences, granted, but most of GMS is just playing the meta as the dice has laid out for them, I don't think that's a community issue.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - TheBlackMage - 2015-08-14
KhainiWest Wrote:The economy is f`ucked less because of the community but rather the exploits that were never cleaned up/attended too. What you don't know is that KMS is the one who micromanages all the decisions you see GMS make, all those massive unbans? That was KMS saying GMS was banning irresponsibly and thats why the population dropped. Botting? They don't know how to handle it since KMS has better methods of micromanaging accounts (SS#).
IT boils down to poor management, there is a reason why GMS had two community managers leave, and the only one that actually got anything done got fired. I think you made that post you aren't/weren't aware of this and just feel like GMS is snobby or something. Culture differences, granted, but most of GMS is just playing the meta as the dice has laid out for them, I don't think that's a community issue.
I see, I didn't truly know that, But with the pretty large shift in management recently, I believe things are gonna be better, I won't lie but KMS was a "desert" (What I mean is, servers were filled at certain times only, talking specifically during the time between U&I and SF patch (New director), between Ice and Burn (After all the influence) and Reboot the servers were filled 24/7) until the new director came along, also the older director was known for milking games until they've died, really sad.
Yes I agree with you on this, The economy is pineappleed up because of the community, This has been my mindset for sometime now, I think GMS brought this upon itself back in early 2012 with all the duped equips running around, same thing with the exploits that's why I've said to blame both the community and nexon in my first post here.
About the Massive Unbans, I didn't know that, but that's pretty sad.
About botting, Botting was rampant in KMS during 2012, it slowly and slowly just got killed, for example MDTs (where ABR recipes drop) had like 6 bishop bots 2 i/l bots 2 f/p bots in every channel. Now botting is non existant, the chinese hackers moved on to do other things (Hack people by posting hacks with keyloggers and crap, people who fall to this get no hacks and get stripped, and then they just sale the victim's equips for really cheap, and sell the meso from what they earn). Botting is somewhat existent but it doesn't affect anything anymore. I think there a few effective solutions (that apply to GMS) for this problem but I doubt they'll get incorporated any time soon. And this should be a priority to be honest.
Fair enough, there are definitely rotten things in the management. Or soon enough were. As I've mentioned earlier the management was really bad in KMS.
I did think that a lot of the pineapples up were done by Nexon America though, I guess both hands are dirty although it isn't that surprising.
And well I suppose it isn't fair to say this when what you're playing is doing fine and you honestly enjoy what it offers but its global counterpart is doing pomegranatety. I still disagree with the OP quite a lot but yeah KMS is fun and I enjoy the friends I've made there so all of this topic seems really far away from me, I did mention on my first post that what I'm saying isn't going to that relevant and this entire subject is alienated in my eyes.
But on the other hand it seems that there are still quite a lot of folks who think like me in the essence that the game's fun, I'm just typing all of this because KMS is truly flourishing and one day that might reach GMS as well. I guess it comes down to just how much I've been playing KMS in the last few years and absorbed its culture.
But on another note I do wish Nexon would help itself (At least with the economy of the game) and add additional options and stop making "money making" equips so worthless.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - Silver - 2015-08-14
Justin Wrote:Er.... they changed very little between the 1mil and 50mil cap - it was simply to fuel the damage and gambling addiction of their players while lining their pockets with money.
Ok, 2 questions - if potential, bonus potential, enhancements, , nebs, etc. didn't exist, do you think they would have increased the cap and why? If all this enhancing stuff was free, would they still increase the cap from 1mil to 50mil?
Justin Wrote:I don't see why this continues to be suggested. The whales would complain and eventually leave. It's far too risky a move in Nexon's eyes to EVER do this at this point. The damage is done. Keep the cap, put in methods and solutions of actual progression for free players that do not have unrealistic amounts of time sunk in as a requirement. I really don't see why there is such a ridiculous opposition for this - the 50mil cap is here to stay. There is NOTHING that will ever be done about it. Why not look for realistic solutions rather than attacking something that will never budge? You're punching a brick wall.
I did say lower the cap AND adjust monster HP accordingly. I don't think capping players will care all that much if the cap decreases but monster HP also decreases by similar proportion. Also in a way some paying players will get upset if you add more free ways to upgrade your gear because, had they known stuff like that will come out, they won't have to pay as much to hit cap if the cap stays at 50m.
KhainiWest Wrote:You're assuming.
If you suggest to add more and more of this kind of stuff to the game, and they do, it's just logical that Nexon will increase the damage cap.
KhainiWest Wrote:What do you not get about increasing the base rather than punishing the top. The top has spent oodles of money, it be stupid as a business, consumer, or just a common sense decision to just simply punish them because the entire game is misbalanced. So you attack the base to make them rise higher to the top since they are obviously not the majority purchasers.
@SaptaZapta;
Thanks for the clarification on the 50m damage or whatever
Add more ways to upgrade equipment (to get people closer to cap) -> more players demand a damage cap increase -> Nexon increases damage cap due to player pressure -> add more ways to upgrade equipment (to get people closer to cap) -> ...
What you're proposing only fuels a vicious cycle, sort of like classes getting buffed and rebuffed to match the OP classes that come out.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - KhainiWest - 2015-08-14
silver Wrote:If you suggest to add more and more of this kind of stuff to the game, and they do, it's just logical that Nexon will increase the damage cap.
Closing the gap would not lead to a logical conclusion of raising the gap. The only reason nexon would hopefully make that decision is if a boss requires a higher cap to defeat it. See potential with pink bean. Players will not demand a cap raise unless there is content they cant reasonably clear without a necessary damage cap change.
silver Wrote:Add more ways to upgrade equipment (to get people closer to cap) -> more players demand a damage cap increase -> Nexon increases damage cap due to player pressure -> add more ways to upgrade equipment (to get people closer to cap) -> ...
What you're proposing only fuels a vicious cycle, sort of like classes getting buffed and rebuffed to match the OP classes that come out.
What I'm suggesting is a method for a small group of players to have the possibility of clearing high level content. We don't have that because the gap is too big, the only reason (I repeat) that a damage cap would be "demanded" is if the high level content would REQUIRE a cap increase.
You're making wild and illogical hypothetical progressions. Your method would just piss people off and make them feel scammed to be honest.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - dowie - 2015-08-14
MEEs probably coming soon to a marvel / something more ridiculous near you
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - Gymleaders - 2015-08-14
comparing GMS and KMS is stupid because korean gaming culture is way different than american gaming culture. that's where they went wrong with their fucking game. they didn't cater to their demographic.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - Grey - 2015-08-14
Silver Wrote:I did say lower the cap AND adjust monster HP accordingly. I don't think capping players will care all that much if the cap decreases but monster HP also decreases by similar proportion. Also in a way some paying players will get upset if you add more free ways to upgrade your gear because, had they known stuff like that will come out, they won't have to pay as much to hit cap if the cap stays at 50m.
It doesn't matter if you add free ways to upgrade gear later on, because the people hitting cap are already hitting cap. Your premise that it would upset them assumes that these people are frugal, that they meticulously keep track of their finances so they can just barely hit cap and then they stop, so that they'd care if they could've done it for cheaper if they had just waited. While there are certainly people like that, most of the people at the top are not. Money is a blunt object, they throw money at the game until they get what they want. If they could do it for cheaper, great, but if they can't, they'll just spend more. They aren't just paying to get to the top, but to get to the top as fast as possible. It's somewhat like early adopters with electronics. They'll throw down a ton of money, even though eventually it'll probably be cheaper, just for the privilege of having it, and having it before other people.
On the other hand, if one day you paid a dollar for a candy bar and then the next day you paid the same amount for half the candy bar, you'd probably feel gipped, regardless of whether or not you still needed a whole candy bar or if half was sufficient. It feels pretty bad when something is taken away from you, even if it's clear that things really haven't changed.
I spent quite a bit to be able to solo CRA, and just barely, so when they nerfed Paladins, a bit more to regain the ability. The fact that Star Force makes it cheaper to get stronger barely crosses my mind, in fact, Star Force was one of the major factors in me being able to solo CRA again, compared to the thoughts of "Man, if they didn't nerf me, I'd be doing twice as much damage now". My thoughts on it are literally, with the same amount of money, I could've been capping. That bothers me a lot more than the fact that I can basically do everything I used to do before.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - Five Second Pose - 2015-08-14
Gymleaders Wrote:comparing GMS and KMS is stupid because korean gaming culture is way different than american gaming culture. that's where they went wrong with their fucking game. they didn't cater to their demographic.
This is the key point I think people making this comparison are missing. You can't directly compare the two because there are factors outside of the game's control that affect things in the game. Does KMS dupe as much as GMS does, for example?
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - Dudewitbow - 2015-08-14
Five Second Pose Wrote:This is the key point I think people making this comparison are missing. You can't directly compare the two because there are factors outside of the game's control that affect things in the game. Does KMS dupe as much as GMS does, for example?
I think that partially ties in with what KhainiWest was sort of implying. Because of the fact that accounts are tied to SSN in korea, people are WAY less prone to start hacking/botting as accounts arent easily as disposable compared to the global server(or pretty much any mmo with a western server.)
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - TheBlackMage - 2015-08-14
Gymleaders Wrote:comparing GMS and KMS is stupid because korean gaming culture is way different than american gaming culture. that's where they went wrong with their pineappleing game. they didn't cater to their demographic.
I honestly don't know about catering to GMS' demographic, What is it exactly? mind you it's global maplestory. World tour and the like are available, all kind of different content is incorporated into the game from all kind of cultures.
I think it's the opposite, they've tried to distinguish themselves too hard, and made too many custom changes. Or maybe it was too little. [MENTION=7833]Dudewitbow[/MENTION]; you're a bit wrong about that one, read my post where I mention botting, also they've done a lot of changes besides switching to more harsh activation systems. But yes you're still somewhat right.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - Justin - 2015-08-14
TheBlackMage Wrote:I honestly don't know about catering to GMS' demographic, What is it exactly? mind you it's global maplestory. World tour and the like are available, all kind of different content is incorporated into the game from all kind of cultures.
I think it's the opposite, they've tried to distinguish themselves too hard, and made too many custom changes. Or maybe it was too little. Dudewitbow; you're a bit wrong about that one, read my post where I mention botting, also they've done a lot of changes besides switching to more harsh activation systems. But yes you're still somewhat right.
It isn't really "Global" maplestory anymore, it's more closely "North America" Maplestory, as much as anyone wants to really deny that. But world tour and in game content are not what he was referring to at all. Gaming culture. MMO Culture. That is what he is saying. They are vastly different between Korea and North America.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - Five Second Pose - 2015-08-14
TheBlackMage Wrote:I honestly don't know about catering to GMS' demographic, What is it exactly? mind you it's global maplestory. World tour and the like are available, all kind of different content is incorporated into the game from all kind of cultures.
I think it's the opposite, they've tried to distinguish themselves too hard, and made too many custom changes. Or maybe it was too little. Dudewitbow; you're a bit wrong about that one, read my post where I mention botting, also they've done a lot of changes besides switching to more harsh activation systems. But yes you're still somewhat right.
It's not World Tour or anything like that. The business decisions that work in Korea will not work in North America (which is still not the entire userbase of Global MS). They're not the same group of people with the same style of thinking.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - Grey - 2015-08-14
TheBlackMage Wrote:I honestly don't know about catering to GMS' demographic, What is it exactly? mind you it's global maplestory. World tour and the like are available,I all kind of different content is incorporated into the game from all kind of cultures.
Not in content, in business and game mechanics. How they differ, I can't say I really know. This discussion calls to mind something Min Kim said about the differences though, specifically about the abundance of PC Cafe based gaming in Korea and the distinct lack of it in North America:
"There's so many things the cafe would do," he continues. "It would market the game for you. There's user interface things taken care of because players are sat next to each other. These natural supports, you don't understand in North America."
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/226336/Nexon_believes_truly_worldwide_video_games_are_on_the_way.php
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - TheBlackMage - 2015-08-14
Justin Wrote:It isn't really "Global" maplestory anymore, it's more closely "North America" Maplestory, as much as anyone wants to really deny that. But world tour and in game content are not what he was referring to at all. Gaming culture. MMO Culture. That is what he is saying. They are vastly different between Korea and North America.
And honestly, how could you fix that? What changes could GMS receive? I don't think that's the problem with the game but that's why we all have opinions. [MENTION=1747]Grey[/MENTION]; good point, nexon KR does care about the pc bangs and quite a lot, I think there could be alternative content/mechanism replacing that though although not physical one.
But I will admit, PC bang is a different experience, it does reward you for various things, and that's what I meant as alternative content, they could've been given based on a different factor I guess.
This is a very difficult topic honestly, how can you take care of this. I don't think that this is fundamentally flawed however, I really see no alternatives or catering to be exact.
I don't think these mechanisms impair the gameplay/flow/whatever though, nor make the versions incomparable.
And with that being said, I don't believe that saying both versions are incomparable, when you lack experience with one of them is very possible, I've played KMS for a longer time than GMS but by no means I don't know how GMS' community is.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - Grey - 2015-08-14
TheBlackMage Wrote:And honestly, how could you fix that? What changes could GMS receive? I don't think that's the problem with the game but that's why we all have opinions. Grey; good point, nexon KR does care about the pc bangs and quite a lot, I think there could be alternative content/mechanism replacing that though although not physical one.
But I will admit, PC bang is a different experience, it does reward you for various things, and that's what I meant as alternative content, they could've been given based on a different factor I guess.
This is a very difficult topic honestly, how can you take care of this. I don't think that this is fundamentally flawed however, I really see no alternatives or catering to be exact.
Well yeah, this has always been a difficult topic, that's why it's so complex to solve.
Solving the issues in GMS isn't simply a matter of having alternatives for all the systems we don't have from KMS, we need entirely new systems. PC Bangs are just an example of this. It's not part of North American culture, we can't just artificially replicate it for GMS and expect that to solve the discrepancies.
TheBlackMage Wrote:I don't think these mechanisms impair the gameplay/flow/whatever though, nor make the versions incomparable.
And with that being said, I don't believe that saying both versions are incomparable, when you lack experience with one of them is very possible.
You can say the game is comparable, that's acceptable, but it would be quite incorrect to say the players are. That's what we mean when we say that KMS and GMS are not the same. It's not the games themselves, it's the audience. GMS players aren't just KMS players but in North America (or other regions), we have different ideas of how our experience with the game should be.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - TheBlackMage - 2015-08-14
Grey Wrote:Well yeah, this has always been a difficult topic, that's why it's so complex to solve.Of course you can't replace it, not that it gives much either way, it's more about the experience.
Solving the issues in GMS isn't simply a matter of having alternatives for all the systems we don't have from KMS, we need entirely new systems. PC Bangs are just an example of this. It's not part of North American culture, we can't just artificially replicate it for GMS and expect that to solve the discrepancies.
But that's thing, is experience truly that lacking in GMS? Maybe I am too culturally impaired or something and can't really see many differences, or I just never cared to nitpick.
Thanks for adding the edit about the players, I was focusing on the game and its gameplay than the players, that's the thing honestly, I was just comparing the versions and not the players.
I guess I can't really understand this thing, not that I don't understand, actually it's something else that bothers me about this whole thing, Is maplestory truly unenjoyable by the players of NA/"Global"?
I think Nexon made a decent amount of changes to satsify the players, obviously not enough but we'll see how it plays out later on as the management changed.
Still though I can't see decent alternatives to a lot of things in KMS, but I also think GMS is holding out on some features KMS has and are beneficial for the player experience.
Just to say I've seen a lot of dialogue changes in GMS compared to KMS and quite a bit of localization, along with some unique aspects that appeal to the typical GMS player whether if it's humor (memes) or something else. There's a bit of content that GMS people wouldn't understand though, such as the new Mushroom kingdom *Assumption* (I don't know if they've localized it so).
Also I must say the thread took at least a 240 degree turn from the OP, and actual things are being discussed and not aruged, good to see this, if anyone noticed this particular subject hasn't been discussed until now.