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+--- Thread: Return of the Explorers; Part 1 (/showthread.php?tid=26443)
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - MariettaRC - 2010-06-11
@foxtales; Go to the person's post and click "Reply With Quote."
I love the Corsair changes, it makes more sense (Pistol-whipping a monster when you can simply shoot it is lol) and makes 2nd Job training less painful, though I never really fully experienced 2nd Job training on a pirate. But I do know the damage SUCKED to begin with. :v I was a bit saddened to see no useful BM changes other than Strafe and Inferno, neither of which are useful to me anymore, but BMs are already a good class anyway, so I'm not really complaining. Pretty awesome for Snipers and their freezing capabilities, though.
The Bishop arguments were fun to read, I'll say.
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - Cyanne - 2010-06-11
I think angel ray deserves a little bit of an upgrade. The huge downside to bishops is that you're terrible at killing mini-bosses like the time temple bosses, manon, griffey, etc. on your own.
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - foxtales - 2010-06-11
MariaColette Wrote:@foxtales; Go to the person's post and click "Reply With Quote."
Ohhh I knew that! Thanks
And yea, exactly my thoughts on Angel Ray. (apparently people feel a 25% boost would throw this perfectly balanced game into a pit of darkness)
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - Blake - 2010-06-11
foxtales Wrote:@farewell
Generally I refrain from replying to post's that serve little to no purpose then to create drama. However, seeing as how you felt the need to quote me and disagree with my opinoin, I'd like to remind you that sharing your own person opinion (that you don't agree) and then providing no evidence to justify your point is only going to incite an endless cycle of the "NO, IM RIGHT!" game- as clearly demonstrated in this thread.
The indisputable fact is that now Arch Mage's are going to be buffed, and will in addition have there Elemental Wands giving them 25% more power- thus creating a new imbalance.
It's a very tired argument. I just didn't feel the need. We know the arguments. They've been hashed and rehashed. I am not wasting my time laying down the opinions and facts that everyone has seen time and time again. Having a Bishop, I just feel like we're good enough for the purpose we serve in the game.
Also, to Cyanne - I feel like I handle Manon, Griffey and other mini bosses fairly well with Genesis and/or Angel Ray. Surely my Paladin is more efficient, but I think Bishops are good enough.
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - Flirtini - 2010-06-11
i never had problems solo bossing on my bishop =p i like angel ray more than gen that i maxed AR while keeping gen at 1 till lvl137 HEHE!
at 17x, i can do manon and griffey with no probs, granted it takes longer than other classes, but i've never had trouble with them =p it's really how you play your character. if you plan to spam gen all day, then yes of course it will be dull. but if you run around looking for bosses to hunt for fun, it brings new life to your character =p
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - jrvillarreal - 2010-06-11
Cyanne Wrote:I think angel ray deserves a little bit of an upgrade. The huge downside to bishops is that you're terrible at killing mini-bosses like the time temple bosses, manon, griffey, etc. on your own.
I think that might be a good thing, they are a support class after all and one of their few downsides is they can't solo bosses alone
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - LegendGospel - 2010-06-11
MorbidMagus Wrote:Bishops need lowered Damage dealing capabilities so they stop whining about "moar damage" and appreciate and do what the class was meant to do; Support.
This I disagree with. I could have agreed with it pre-antileech patch. Before they fixed the leeching ratio, I trained my priest 70-113 ONLY by supporting a marauder. Even as a Cleric I leveled ONLY by supporting her as a brawler at Windraiders. Then it was Windraiders, Himes, Skeles, and whatnot. Everything was pretty sweet, woo, I was a support class, I was only like a level behind her at most, and we leveled together ALL the time.
Then we got the leech patch, and suddendly I was getting less than 1/4 the experience the attacker does. I was better off soloing Himes. Nowadays maybe a low level Priest can get better exp partying at Himes, but if you're near 4th job don't even bother. Just heal/shining ray Himes for life, it's better exp. Been there. Ask any young Cleric/Priests how good it's to be a support class right now.
Now you're telling me we should be mainly supporters during 4th job too? Sure! Just bring back the old leech ratio. But if you intend us to be supporters with the current leech ratio, we would go from being the fastest leveling class in the game to the slowest one. Not exaggerating.
Just curious... how is Angel Ray overpowered? The only time I've found it kinda useful is soloing Captain Latanica. It's not like I'm gonna train mad fast with Angel Ray or kill a Zakum arm with it (use Genesis instead), so... I've found no other use for Angel Ray other than saying "woo, I hit 17k to that Boar!
".Kalovale Wrote:Bishops no longer feel the need to train with people who worked together with them before in 3rd job. Why do you think countless warriors migrated to ToT to train? PoTs? Yeah, right.
I've never trained at Skeles alone as a Bishop. It's dull as hell. You know what? Genesis is our best support skill in the game. We party with friends at Skeles and make them level faster =). Screw Holy Symbol, Genesis + Skeles is the pomegranate.
On the other hand, most friends who get to 15x no longer feel the need to train at Skeles and they migrate to ToT, leaving ME alone. D:
tl;dr Bishops are fine the way they are, I'd just wish I could support a little better, since that's what I do. Not for me. For others.
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - Kitteh - 2010-06-11
I can personally testify that yes, as soon as I could, I left Bishops and Skeles as fast as I could for ToT and yes, it was for the PoTs.
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - Stereo - 2010-06-11
I can personally testify that Bishops won't train with me, so I went to ToT because it's better than soloing skeles....
wooo
I did do 112-117 on my DK with a Bishop though, it's nice not having to kill the whole map yourself :|
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - SolicShooter - 2010-06-11
CarrionCrow Wrote:Not to mention, comparing classes is the bloody point of balancing them... Why the deuce would anyone need to be balanced for without something to be balanced against?
Balancing doesn't have to be between the classes, but can also occur between the skills itself. Flamethrower,Rapid Fire and Elemental Boost were all buffed so they might be picked earlier. I wish Nexon could balance so well that there weren't any set in stone builds anymore. I would actually have liked to see this kind of balancing in every class which includes nerfing some good skills like battleship cannon. Buffed up grenade, hypnotize and gaviato I'm all for it. Yes I'm a Corsair therefor I speak of my perspective ^^.
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - PirateIzzy - 2010-06-11
Good to know that corsairs are finally gonna shoot at point-blank range.
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - Piggy 2.0 - 2010-06-11
Darkmaniak Wrote:I wonder if the extra barrage range will be helpful at big foot :o
Should be. The only thing I hope we need to worry about is corking it back into the corner, then getting out in time to barrage.
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - Phoenix Wright - 2010-06-11
Evidently, Asumi is looking for something like this:
Bahamut Level 30: MP -10, Basic attack 650, for 300 secs
Genesis Level 30: MP -500, Basic attack 767,000
Angel Ray Level 30: MP -10, Basic attack 2,147,483,647, Mastery 220%
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - Kalovale - 2010-06-11
LegendGospel Wrote:This I disagree with. I could have agreed with it pre-antileech patch. Before they fixed the leeching ratio, I trained my priest 70-113 ONLY by supporting a marauder. Even as a Cleric I leveled ONLY by supporting her as a brawler at Windraiders. Then it was Windraiders, Himes, Skeles, and whatnot. Everything was pretty sweet, woo, I was a support class, I was only like a level behind her at most, and we leveled together ALL the time.
Then we got the leech patch, and suddendly I was getting less than 1/4 the experience the attacker does. I was better off soloing Himes. Nowadays maybe a low level Priest can get better exp partying at Himes, but if you're near 4th job don't even bother. Just heal/shining ray Himes for life, it's better exp. Been there. Ask any young Cleric/Priests how good it's to be a support class right now.
Now you're telling me we should be mainly supporters during 4th job too? Sure! Just bring back the old leech ratio. But if you intend us to be supporters with the current leech ratio, we would go from being the fastest leveling class in the game to the slowest one. Not exaggerating.
There, you finally said it. If you remember, back in the days people would make Lukless Clerics to fund other chars, in the days of leech, being a Priest is arguably the easiest leveling class, and once you hit Bishop, it's no longer an argument. The question is, does the branch deserve that training speed/ease in exchange for their "supportivity"? I mean, if you choose to be a warrior (strong/bulky), you choose strength in exchange for mobility, if you choose a thief (fast/nimble) you excel at dexterity, but lose out on survivability, if you choose to be a supporter, you lose the ability to attack. Doesn't that make more sense than OH POOR YEW GUYZ NO ATTK SKILLZ? WELL HERE'S A FREE GOD-FORGIVE-ME ULTIMATE @@@
The fact that they earned Genesis, in my opinion, is to make up for the hellish (religious?) training they should have gone through (yet they didn't!!!) in earlier jobs, much like how you say it makes sense for a Corsair to top the DPS chart since they simple suck in pre-4th jobs. If it's all smooth sailing, what is the point?
tl;dr
Being supportive => lacking offensive capacities
Being supportive =/=> being compensated with 5x training speed compared with the rest
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - foxtales - 2010-06-11
Kalovale Wrote:There, you finally said it. If you remember, back in the days people would make Lukless Clerics to fund other chars, in the days of leech, being a Priest is arguably the easiest leveling class, and once you hit Bishop, it's no longer an argument. The question is, does the branch deserve that training speed/ease in exchange for their "supportivity"? I mean, if you choose to be a warrior (strong/bulky), you choose strength in exchange for mobility, if you choose a thief (fast/nimble) you excel at dexterity, but lose out on survivability, if you choose to be a supporter, you lose the ability to attack. Doesn't that make more sense than OH POOR YEW GUYZ NO ATTK SKILLZ? WELL HERE'S A FREE GOD-FORGIVE-ME ULTIMATE @@@
The fact that they earned Genesis, in my opinion, is to make up for the hellish (religious?) training they should have gone through (yet they didn't!!!) in earlier jobs, much like how you say it makes sense for a Corsair to top the DPS chart since they simple suck in pre-4th jobs. If it's all smooth sailing, what is the point?
tl;dr
Being supportive => lacking offensive capacities
Being supportive =/=> being compensated with 5x training speed compared with the rest
Does a Bowmaster having Sharp Eyes make it a support class too? How about the fact that they can kill Royal Guardian for what is undeniably the fastest exp in the game (yes, faster then that lovely genesis). On top of that, I would much sooner skele with a BM then a Bishop, and simply use an HS mule.
Also I find it amusing that the mere thought of a Bishop getting a slight buff brings chaos to the land, yet what is already our strongest class is getting even more upgrades and yet no one seems to mind at all.
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - Rick - 2010-06-11
Ok, the Bishop argument is one of the oldest arguments in existence. Every possible point must have been discussed at one point, so it stops now.
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - Kalovale - 2010-06-11
foxtales Wrote:Does a Bowmaster having Sharp Eyes make it a support class too? How about the fact that they can kill Royal Guardian for what is undeniably the fastest exp in the game (yes, faster then that lovely genesis). On top of that, I would much sooner skele with a BM then a Bishop, and simply use an HS mule.
Also I find it amusing that the mere thought of a Bishop getting a slight buff brings chaos to the land, yet what is already our strongest class is getting even more upgrades and yet no one seems to mind at all.
Uhhhh... Sharp Eyes mainly is to make Archers NOT suck, isn't it? Look at Wild Hunter and the comments about them. I certainly wouldn't mind SE being a self-buff, but the way it works, it makes them mules simply because of the way people treat them. To the core, they still are attacker class.
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - faylie - 2010-06-11
You don't get it. The fact is, being a support class in Maplestory just plain sucks. Try leeching skeles at even as low as level 140 and see how slow you level. You're saying that as a support class, one should just support the party by providing buffs and whatnot. So you're saying that bishops should leech all the way up to lv200, is it? The simple truth is that to get to lv200, all classes MUST train. They cannot just leech. There's a reason why there isn't a lv200 beginner.
And to your point of how "Being supportive =/=> being compensated with 5x training speed compared with the rest ", because the funny thing is, they do deserve to be compensated. The party formula disables the leecher so much that it's only reasonable that a bishop becomes an attacker as well.
In my opinion, Bishops do deserve a stronger single-attack skill. I'm level 14x, and my maxed AR barely hits above 15k (on neutral monsters). That doesn't even compare with the strong single-attack skills that ALL classes have, save the arch mages, and they even have stronger single-attack skills than bishops do.
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - Rick - 2010-06-11
This is the final notice, and a blanket warning to EVERYONE. The Bishop argument stops.
Return of the Explorers; Part 1 - MetaSeraphim - 2010-06-11
Is the "Return of the Explorers Event" part 2 of this? Or do we still wait for part 2?