dowie Wrote:I dunno how that's related but anyways can you even get above a B neb ( rarely) from a neb box? Is there anyway to combine them other than paying nx?

Grey Wrote:The quantity of upgrade systems isn't the major factor in creating a gap here. If I had a million different upgrade systems that were equally available to everyone, with 100% chance to get an upgrade that would be the same for everyone, that wouldn't cause a gap. All those things have an element of chance, which on its own, I think is fine. The gap would just be based on chance, which doesn't discriminate, and we would probably have people along a wide spectrum of damage levels. The problem is that you can brute force your way to better equips by throwing tons of money at it. There are people who can, and eagerly, spend to get the best possible equips, and those that can't, or won't. That's where the gap comes from. With potentials, sure, you could spend hours gathering materials to craft cubes, but you can get as many cubes as you want if you just buy them from the cash shop. The more you spend, the higher the chance of getting something good, not to mention there's an entire potential system (bonus pots) that non-paying don't even have access too, except for like, if I remember correctly, two instances where you could buy 5 bonus pot cubes for rewards points. This isn't even like a minor thing, you can get pretty significant stats from bonus pots, that non-paying players will never see, there's a gap, right there. Enhancements, I mean, they cost a lot back in the day, with having to buy protection scrolls and all, and those gave a big bonus too, for weapons, but most people would just do their weapon and be done with it, but that was still at least 7 stars more than a non-paying player, unless they spent entire events farming and hoping that the few protection scrolls that they could get would let them pass an enhancement scroll. Thankfully, we have star force now. Nebulites... you can't even get A rank outside of marvel or gach or fusing, all of which cost money. To have good results from these systems, you pretty much have to spend a ton of money, and if you can't, well, you're basically out of luck.

Things like additional options and star force don't increase the gap much, if at all. They're equally available and unaffected by how much money you throw at the screen (additional options more so than star force, since star force gets pretty pricey so, you know, that's kind of gappy). At worst they shift the gap up, and given that there's a cap, weaker players can continue to rise while stronger players eventually hit the cap, necessarily decreasing the gap.

It's incredibly stupid to think that not adding additional options is somehow helping things. All you're doing is making sure that weaker players necessarily have to pay to get better equips, not to mention making everything but the best stuff irredeemably worthless. It's unlikely that Nexon's going to suddenly remove potential or make it available to everyone (without pissing all the heavy spenders off), so we might as well look out for the little guy until they come up with a satisfying solution for the power creep. At the very least, if everyone's in the same damage range, it makes it much easier to scale things down.

Silver Wrote:Wait - by "gap", are we talking about a generic average damage (or DPS difference) between a funded and unfunded player, or are we specifically referring to the difference between a paying and non-paying player?

Silver Wrote:Wait - by "gap", are we talking about a generic average damage (or DPS difference) between a funded and unfunded player, or are we specifically referring to the difference between a paying and non-paying player?

KhainiWest Wrote:

EDIT: Blue line is meant for players who pay. Also a typo in the green text with "thus".

Tsundere Wrote:I somewhat think if we just move the threshold down to the purple line it would help immensely. I'm tired of seeing huge numbers everywhere on mob damage. It could be since the damage cap increase, which turns me off from the game, but I think removing potential or at least changing the damage formula would be a good way to salvage the game.

Tsundere Wrote:I somewhat think if we just move the threshold down to the purple line it would help immensely. I'm tired of seeing huge numbers everywhere on mob damage. It could be since the damage cap increase, which turns me off from the game, but I think removing potential or at least changing the damage formula would be a good way to salvage the game.

SaptaZapta Wrote:Same thing.

"Funds" = "Money"
"Funded" = "Paying"

KhainiWest Wrote:

EDIT: Blue line is meant for players who pay. Also a typo in the green text with "thus".

Silver Wrote:Oh there's a big difference as we were talking about different things. I was saying more ways to upgrade is bad for the game, period, which had nothing to do with paying or reducing the "gap" between a paying and non-paying player.



Ok, so we are talking about the paying gap. Technically the "gap" (absolute damage difference) does increase if the new upgrade option adds multiplicative damage, e.g. +10% atk, as the most funded would also utilize the new upgrade option. The triangle would stretch. If it's additive, e.g. +10 atk, there would be no change to the "gap" if there's no multiplicative factor involved (but the triangle would still technically "stretch"). This is assuming the damage formula is linear.

I guess a free additive method would be better because it reduces the proportional damage difference between a paying and non-paying member. There's also the cap, but more upgrade options also encourage a damage cap increase.

Silver Wrote:Oh there's a big difference as we were talking about different things. I was saying more ways to upgrade is bad for the game, period, which had nothing to do with paying or reducing the "gap" between a paying and non-paying player.



Ok, so we are talking about the paying gap. Technically the "gap" (absolute damage difference) does increase if the new upgrade option adds multiplicative damage, e.g. +10% atk, as the most funded would also utilize the new upgrade option. The triangle would stretch. If it's additive, e.g. +10 atk, there would be no change to the "gap" if there's no multiplicative factor involved (but the triangle would still technically "stretch"). This is assuming the damage formula is linear.

I guess a free additive method would be better because it reduces the proportional damage difference between a paying and non-paying member. There's also the cap, but more upgrade options also encourage a damage cap increase.

jakbeer Wrote:If you want to share your info, you can post them here: http://maplestory.nexon.net/community#%2Fshowthread.php%3F1465916-Your-Thoughts-on-Additional-Options

I'm conducting a survey for this and some info may be valuable and most the community is there.

KhainiWest Wrote:I mean you're trying really hard to rationalize your lack of sentence comprehension but you're starting to sound loony. The point of the system is to get the average player closer to the cap, not at the cap. The closer they are the more likely they will be willing to spend to get that last bit, a system like the one GMS missed out on is not going to encourage a damage cap increase.

SaptaZapta Wrote:I do agree with you that the minority would be calmoring louder for a damage cap increase as more and more people get close and reach it. Nexon just has to be strong and refuse.

SaptaZapta Wrote:The triangle can't stretch because the ceiling is a hard cap.
(Ceiling is at 50m damage per line, not at 2m-2m displayed range)
You would be right if there weren't many people already at the ceiling. But there are. They can't gain anything from any new upgrade system. Everyone else, though, would move closer to them.

Silver Wrote:Why did Nexon feel the need to increase the cap from 999,999 to 50 million? Because they keep adding more and more of these "boost your range!" features to the game.

Silver Wrote:Ok, but what about just decreasing the cap and adjust monster and boss HPs accordingly?

Justin Wrote:I really don't see why there is such a ridiculous opposition for this - the 50mil cap is here to stay. There is NOTHING that will ever be done about it. Why not look for realistic solutions rather than attacking something that will never budge? You're punching a brick wall.

Silver Wrote:Basically this:


Why did Nexon feel the need to increase the cap from 999,999 to 50 million? Because they keep adding more and more of these "boost your range!" features to the game.[/quotes

Silver Wrote:Ok, but what about just decreasing the cap and adjust monster and boss HPs accordingly?

Marksman Bryan Wrote:It is beyond frustrating having to deal with people that have this mentality. Work, school, maple - I've encountered it everywhere.

Open up people. Listen to other sides and new points of views.