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+---- Thread: Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) (/showthread.php?tid=48862)
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - Devil - 2012-08-15
Locked Wrote:Yeah stolen skill attack power/buffs got nerfed too.Huh?
According to Fiel's extractions the only thing that was changed about Stolen Skills was:
Talent of Phantom Thief IV:
New - cooltime (30) (30)
Which adds a cooldown on the stolen skill switching...
I didn't hear anything about nerfing the stolen skills themselves? Can you or anyone else post information about that?
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - Locked - 2012-08-15
Devil Wrote:Huh?
According to Fiel's extractions the only thing that was changed about Stolen Skills was:
Talent of Phantom Thief IV:
New - cooltime (30) (30)
Which adds a cooldown on the stolen skill switching...
I didn't hear anything about nerfing the stolen skills themselves? Can you or anyone else post information about that?
It'd help if you read the thread or something. I knew about it so I told Joe and I told him I didn't know about the exact reduction so he tested it.
JoeTang Wrote:Updated Phantom for Tempest, and I was informed about a new penalty from stolen skills. I tested it with Paralyze and Magic Claw since I couldn't find a Corsair, and it ended up at 77% of normal damage, i.e. my Paralyze did 160% * 0.77 (level 10 Talent), as did the damage over time. The duration of stolen buffs is 60% of the normal duration.
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - Aflac - 2012-08-15
Locked Wrote:It'd help if you read the thread or something. I knew about it so I told Joe and I told him I didn't know about the exact reduction so he tested it.
Any idea why this change didn't show up in extractions?
I love how they thought a 20% nerf wasn't good enough, so they nerfed it by 20% again, while releasing a class that's twice as strong as Phantom originally was, with the capability to be 10 times as strong as any other class in the enetire game.
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - Devil - 2012-08-15
Aflac Wrote:Any idea why this change didn't show up in extractions?Well, I guess they super nerfed it, so they can revamp it 6~12 months afterwards, and create an "event" out of revamp...
I love how they thought a 20% nerf wasn't good enough, so they nerfed it by 20% again, while releasing a class that's twice as strong as Phantom originally was, with the capability to be 10 times as strong as any other class in the enetire game.
That's so Nexon... make an event about a thing they ruined (on purpose) earlier... I would say summer 2013 for Phantom revamp!!! :+)
I wonder if the buff durations to the partymembers are altered too, because those are they same party skills as the originals iirc. Well it should make us extreme good party buffers, since we have to recast all skills earlier then they end with the partymembers themselves!
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - Dark Link - 2012-08-15
Aflac Wrote:I love how they thought a 20% nerf wasn't good enough, so they nerfed it by 20% again, while releasing a class that's twice as strong as Phantom originally was, with the capability to be 10 times as strong as any other class in the enetire game.
Welcome to the life of a Demon Slayer.
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - sihou2 - 2012-09-06
how is the dps on Dual blades so low? I hit all crits in bosses due to shadow evasion.
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - IllegallySane - 2012-09-18
I just want to confirm there, Joe. Is the % for Dual Blades adding in Kataras? Someone in another thread is saying otherwise, so if he's right then technically the figures I'm seeing for Dual Blade should be about 40-50% higher than the numbers listed, give or take several percent.
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - Takebacker - 2012-09-18
IllegallySane Wrote:I just want to confirm there, Joe. Is the % for Dual Blades adding in Kataras? Someone in another thread is saying otherwise, so if he's right then technically the figures I'm seeing for Dual Blade should be about 40-50% higher than the numbers listed, give or take several percent.
Weapon attack has no relevance to %/s. If it did it would be DPS. That's not what joe does.
40-50% is a stupidly bad estimation too.
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - IllegallySane - 2012-09-18
Takebacker Wrote:Weapon attack has no relevance to %/s. If it did it would be DPS. That's not what joe does.
40-50% is a stupidly bad estimation too.
I know. It was just a number pulled out of my ass. But yeah I know what you mean, seeing Kataras can also get boss damage and whatnot, making for stupid shenanigans on an off-hand weapon.
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - JoeTang - 2012-09-18
IllegallySane Wrote:I know. It was just a number pulled out of my ass. But yeah I know what you mean, seeing Kataras can also get boss damage and whatnot, making for stupid shenanigans on an off-hand weapon.
What difference does it make now that every class has weapon potential on their off hand?
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - MrTouchnGo - 2012-09-18
JoeTang Wrote:What difference does it make now that every class has weapon potential on their off hand?
Most of us don't have that yet. Eventually we'll get it, but for now, only the newer/dual-wielding classes will hold that advantage.
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - IllegallySane - 2012-09-18
JoeTang Wrote:What difference does it make now that every class has weapon potential on their off hand?
MrTouchnGo Wrote:Most of us don't have that yet. Eventually we'll get it, but for now, only the newer/dual-wielding classes will hold that advantage.
Pretty much this, not to mention not only can their off-hand get the 30% boss damage (or whatever the heck it goes up to now) but it's also very silly being able to get roughly a 40 weapon attack advantage over Shadowers on top of whatever else they have. At least now I understand the damage tables better.
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - Aflac - 2012-09-18
Actually now that I think about it, how does [MENTION=535]JoeTang[/MENTION]; account for buffs like Shadower's Instinct in the %/s? I know they are "used" to account for % lost when buffing instead of attacking, but does it boost any of the percentages? If not that could make up a significant portion of the difference, as Shad Instinct adds 50att.
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - JoeTang - 2012-09-18
Aflac Wrote:Actually now that I think about it, how does [MENTION=535]JoeTang[/MENTION]; account for buffs like Shadower's Instinct in the %/s? I know they are "used" to account for % lost when buffing instead of attacking, but does it boost any of the percentages? If not that could make up a significant portion of the difference, as Shad Instinct adds 50att.
It doesn't. It's impossible to account for a weapon attack bonus because that 50 weapon attack for example can range from anywhere between a 2.5x increase to no increase in damage. I cannot state for a fact how much weapon attack any given character has, because they could be a singular level 200 Shadower wearing a 20 attack dagger, or they could be someone with a hacked weapon with 9999 weapon attack, or anything in between.
In theory, you're supposed to take your %/s and multiply it with your average range without any damage% modifiers on it, but since most classes have things that are additive with boss damage/total damage, and extra defense ignore, and on rare occasion, critical potential of some sort, it will vary.
That being said, I've found an issue with Dual Blades where I used 50% for Mirror Image instead of 70%, and Night Lord's Fatal Venom was using the wrong mastery value to find its max, which I have corrected. I've also updated to include Phantom's Hyper Skills in the OP, and removed Purge Area from Night Lords if I haven't already, as it was reported it does not work on bosses. If anyone can confirm or prove otherwise, let me know.
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - JoeTang - 2012-10-14
Shadow:
Hyper
Night Lord:
Hyper
With Sharp Eyes
Blade Master:
Hyper
With Sharp Eyes
Shadower: Edge Carnival and Muspelheim are used in their own tables, along with Boomerang Step. Assassinate is used whenever 5 KP is available. 5 KP is saved to recast Shadow Instinct. Meso Explosion is used whenever ~180s passes before coins all expire. Assassinate is used in-between for single targets. There is also a table to show what happens when Assassinate isn't used, and what happens when Assassinate is the only thing used.
[INDENT]Hyper: Uses Veil of Shadow, Flip the Coin, Boomerang Step - Reinforce, Boomerang Step - Bonus Attack, Boomerang Step - Extra Target, Assassinate - Bonus Attack, Meso Explosion - Enhanced[/INDENT]
[INDENT]- Assassinate should already be hitting near max, so Reinforce is useless. It also adds very little compared to everything else anyways due to Assassinate's huge damage buffs. Assassinate - Limit Canceller adds less damage unless you want to sacrifice the 8 target hit of Boomerang Step, which is whatever.[/INDENT]
Night Lord: Quadruple Throw for single target and Shade Split for multiple targets. Purge Area has been said to not apply vs Bosses.
[INDENT]Hyper: Uses Four Seasons, Bleeding Toxin, Quadruple Throw - Reinforce, Quadruple Throw - Boss killer, Quadruple Throw - Bonus Attack, Shade Split - Reinforce, Shade Split - Bonus Attack[/INDENT]
Blade Master: Dual Blade uses Phantom Blow for single targets, Blade Fury for multi-targets. Also includes a table for using Bloody Storm with Blade Fury, which is better on low defense mobs. Final Cut is cast whenever it is available.
[INDENT]Hyper: Uses Asura (est. 270ms) and Hidden Blade so they overlap, Phantom Blow - Reinforce, Phantom Blow - Bonus Attack, Phantom Blow - Ignore Guard, Bloody Storm - Reinforce, Bloody Storm - Bonus Attack[/INDENT]
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - Elecher - 2012-10-14
Chains of Hell MAX is 296.79m/s, I guess sth went wrong o.O
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - JoeTang - 2012-10-14
Elecher Wrote:Chains of Hell MAX is 296.79m/s, I guess sth went wrong o.O
I fixed the problem. Asura adds a pomegranateton of damage. If it had a regular cap, the MAX/s for Chains of Hell would be 10.62m/s
Assassinate Only also only uses Assassinate, nothing else. I'll update this later.
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - MrTouchnGo - 2012-10-14
How does Veil of Shadows' delay work? Is the 1080ms time to cast, time between the hits, or both? And would the time in between hits be affected by Booster? :f6:
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - See - 2012-10-14
I'm pretty sure I must be reading this wrong, but why is BS+BF more max/sec on 1v1 than Hyper (for DB)?
Thief %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest) - JoeTang - 2012-10-14
MrTouchnGo Wrote:How does Veil of Shadows' delay work? Is the 1080ms time to cast, time between the hits, or both? And would the time in between hits be affected by Booster? :f6:
Veil of Shadow is Angelic Buster's Supernova.
See Wrote:I'm pretty sure I must be reading this wrong, but why is BS+BF more max/sec on 1v1 than Hyper (for DB)?
Fixed it. Was missing Hidden Blade's FA for Phantom Blow.