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+--- Thread: [1.2.324] (3) Last chance! (/showthread.php?tid=27335)
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - Phoenix - 2010-07-06
Would Crusher's now defense ignoring property (As Fiel stated), be enough to justify using it. At least at Zak, you would crusher the arms, and Sac the Body.
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - Dusk - 2010-07-06
TOTALLY CaLLED THE DRK CHANGES.
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - Baklava - 2010-07-06
I like how people are making snap judgments on the classes with only a little bit of concrete information to work with.
It's why the internet is such a good place.
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - Alilatias - 2010-07-06
iamflip Wrote:One place I can think of is Insoya.Insoya is nice, but from what I remember of it, it loads like pomergranate for most of us. Not to mention the whole language barrier.
Regardless, I decided that I'm going to take the time to scan through their Bowman section (or what I'm assuming is their Bowman section). I won't promise that I can find anything there, as... Let's just say that the crappy Google translations from the few threads that I'm going through right now indicate that they're not all too different from us.
- The first thread I went into had someone asking about skill delays for this "Hunting" skill.
- The second thread consisted of this Ranger girl showing off her Dark Nisrock. I don't get what happened between the first image and the second image. However, between the second and the third, it would appear that she just used an Enchancement scroll to go from 4 stars -> 5 stars, and the only changes were +3 W.ATK and +1 DEX. Oh, and the Dark Nisrock has a Green name. For those interested in the color, I think this is the link to the thread: http://www.insoya.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=job_bowman&no=11399
- The third thread was another showoff thread. Nothing special here compared to the previous.
- The fourth thread... Uh, can someone translate this:
샤프 하향되구
폭시 상향되구
파이널 어택 상향 된거 같은데
패치전하고 패치후하고 수치로 비교해주실분 없나욤??,,ㅠㅠ
폭시쏠때 중간에 파이널 어택 틱틱 나가면 기분 좋을거 같을꺼 같아요,,,,ㅋ
(Google Translate says something about Final Attack. It translates the last part as "Final attack in the middle of poksissolttae tiktik gateulkkeo You would leave feeling like,,,, blah"
Hm, middle of what? Translating the comments below aren't of much help either. For those interested: http://www.insoya.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=job_bowman&no=11396)
- The fifth thread... Oh man, it looks like the KMS Bowmasters are pretty ticked off. Google translate all this for the lulz: http://www.insoya.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=job_bowman&no=11395
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - dpeterlin - 2010-07-06
Phoenix Wrote:Would Crusher's now defense ignoring property (As Fiel stated), be enough to justify using it. At least at Zak, you would crusher the arms, and Sac the Body.
It's not defense ignoring it's that there is no defense penalty to you when you use the new zerk. Previously there was a 30-60% defense reduction (depending on versioin you are referencing )to you if you were in new zerk, now there is none.
Crusher is better than fury for arms now, Crusher was always better than sac for arms assuming you could hit 2 of them.
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - Phoenix - 2010-07-06
Oh I suck. I totally didn't notice them removing the Defence penalty. Hm well, they should probably give Crusher a 10-20% per hit x_X
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - Dusk - 2010-07-06
Crusher does 960% + 4xcrit damage now with Dark Force. DrKs have a much higher attack multiplier than other warriors. I think they're probably fine now.
Sac still does 1040% + crit + ignore defense. I think it might have been overpowered before.
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - Zienth - 2010-07-06
Redemption21 Wrote:with SP are shadowers stronger then Dual Bladers?
Unless the formulas for dual blade attack was changed they pretty much destroy all shadowers. Bloody Storm does 420% x 8 hits = 3360% without counting the additional 70% and 2x hitting from mirror image. Bloody Storm has a 870ms delay leaving behind Savage Blow at 960ms.
youngtse Wrote:Actually I must say Aran does not get nerfed literally on his skills, its just the universal critical damage decrease hurt Aran a lot,
plus all other class got ridiculously buffed........
By the looks of it we Arans got buffed to hell. A 40% base critical with High Mastery and Critical Combo and an additional critical bonus of +4% added ten times gives us a critical maxed at 80% (Combo 100+) without SE or Thorns. With Thorns, its a 100% critical. If anything the revamp made Aran a super warrior.
Code:
- Critical Combo: Now gives a permanent increased base critical chance of 20% - looks like critical combo then adds %chance on top of the base critical chance
- Overswing: Double Swing's damage increased by +15% at all levels, Triple Swing's damage increased by +15% at all levels
- High Mastery: Mastery increased by +5% at all levels (for a maximum mastery of 70%). This skill also adds minimum critical damage of +20%[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - MorbidMagus - 2010-07-06
Dark Knight buffs<3
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - Lasten - 2010-07-06
Zienth Wrote:Unless the formulas for dual blade attack was changed they pretty much destroy all shadowers. Bloody Storm does 420% x 8 hits = 3360% without counting the additional 70% and 2x hitting from mirror image. Bloody Storm has a 870ms delay leaving behind Savage Blow at 960ms.
By the looks of it we Arans got buffed to hell. A 40% base critical with High Mastery and Critical Combo and an additional critical bonus of +4% added ten times gives us a critical maxed at 80% (Combo 100+) without SE or Thorns. With Thorns, its a 100% critical. If anything the revamp made Aran a super warrior.
Code:- Critical Combo: Now gives a permanent increased base critical chance of 20% - looks like critical combo then adds %chance on top of the base critical chance
- Overswing: Double Swing's damage increased by +15% at all levels, Triple Swing's damage increased by +15% at all levels
- High Mastery: Mastery increased by +5% at all levels (for a maximum mastery of 70%). This skill also adds minimum critical damage of +20%
I don't see where you got 40% base critical from.
As far as I'm aware, (with critical ring) we get 35% base + 3%*10.
Critical damage is pretty useless now anyway if it works the way I've been informed (additive).
So, we have a 65% chance to deal +45% damage (on average).
That's 29.25%.
In a complete Overswing that translates to only +146.25%, which is completely pathetic compared to our old +800%.
After doing some of my own calculations (this includes Final Blow), we don't even compare to DrKs using Crusher w/o FA let alone Sacrifice.
I don't see where Nexon is going with this. Even if Critical was/became multiplicative, we wouldn't budge from our pitiful place on the damage rung, which is really all that matters. Admit it.
Arans are useless for anything other than Bossing and damage. They have useless party skills (unreliable Combo Barrier), horrible survivability and a reliance on external buffs.
It's completely fair that Heroes and DrKs used to obliterate us on 2-3 targets, but we managed to keep our edge against a single target or massive mobs. But that isn't even the case now. Heroes have Enrage and DrKs have their Sacrifice. Arans are left in the dust.
I hate to be one of those many that complain about their class getting 'nerfed' if you will, but I beleive I'm within perfect reason to whinge and cry about a class I've stayed loyal to despite the Big Bang updates, trusting that Nexon would have seen, from the very first patch, that they seemed to forget someone, a special element of the game that used to make Nexon a shitload of money: Arans.
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - Abysseon - 2010-07-06
Lasten Wrote:But that isn't even the case now. Heroes have Enrage and DrKs have their Sacrifice. Arans are left in the dust.
I'm waiting for kms to release some vids before going to the 'lolclass' description.
Quote:I hate to be one of those many that complain about their class getting 'nerfed' if you will, but I beleive I'm within perfect reason to whinge and cry about a class I've stayed loyal to despite the Big Bang updates, trusting that Nexon would have seen, from the very first patch, that they seemed to forget someone, a special element of the game that used to make Nexon a pomegranateload of money: Arans.
^ Its all about the resistance now. =(
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - Zienth - 2010-07-06
Lasten Wrote:I don't see where you got 40% base critical from.
As far as I'm aware, (with critical ring) we get 35% base + 3%*10.
Critical damage is pretty useless now anyway if it works the way I've been informed (additive).
So, we have a 65% chance to deal +45% damage (on average).
That's 29.25%.
In a complete Overswing that translates to only +146.25%, which is completely pathetic compared to our old +800%.
After doing some of my own calculations (this includes Final Blow), we don't even compare to DrKs using Crusher w/o FA let alone Sacrifice.
I don't see where Nexon is going with this. Even if Critical was/became multiplicative, we wouldn't budge from our pitiful place on the damage rung, which is really all that matters. Admit it.
Arans are useless for anything other than Bossing and damage. They have useless party skills (unreliable Combo Barrier), horrible survivability and a reliance on external buffs.
It's completely fair that Heroes and DrKs used to obliterate us on 2-3 targets, but we managed to keep our edge against a single target or massive mobs. But that isn't even the case now. Heroes have Enrage and DrKs have their Sacrifice. Arans are left in the dust.
I hate to be one of those many that complain about their class getting 'nerfed' if you will, but I beleive I'm within perfect reason to whinge and cry about a class I've stayed loyal to despite the Big Bang updates, trusting that Nexon would have seen, from the very first patch, that they seemed to forget someone, a special element of the game that used to make Nexon a pomegranateload of money: Arans.
Back in 321 it was raised to +4% for every 10 combo. Combo critical gives a permanent 20% critical when maxed, I presume +1% every level. The High Mastery was my mistake, I took it for critical chance rather than critical damage. But getting back to the point Arans starting from a base critical of 20% will reach a 40% increase at +100 combo from which there is either Thorns/SE and/or Critical Ring which still will give us that extra boost into 90-100%. Is critical useless now because of the change in formulas, even with the 70% Mastery and +20% Critical Damage?
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - Random_Overlord - 2010-07-06
I swear I'll quit for good if Bowmasters are as bad as NL's.
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - Kalovale - 2010-07-06
Zienth Wrote:Is critical useless now because of the change in formulas, even with the 70% Mastery and +20% Critical Damage?
More or less, if you compare it with the current Critical that gMS Arans are using. It's like saying 80:20 leech is obsolete though; it isn't, it only is when compared with 60:40 leech.
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - Alloy - 2010-07-06
Random_Overlord Wrote:I swear I'll quit for good if Bowmasters are as bad as NL's.
I don't get it.
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - Random_Overlord - 2010-07-06
Alloy Wrote:I don't get it.
Sorry I don't know what I'm talking about again. >.<
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - FrozNlite - 2010-07-06
Zienth Wrote:Back in 321 it was raised to +4% for every 10 combo. Combo critical gives a permanent 20% critical when maxed, I presume +1% every level. The High Mastery was my mistake, I took it for critical chance rather than critical damage. But getting back to the point Arans starting from a base critical of 20% will reach a 40% increase at +100 combo from which there is either Thorns/SE and/or Critical Ring which still will give us that extra boost into 90-100%. Is critical useless now because of the change in formulas, even with the 70% Mastery and +20% Critical Damage?
- High Mastery gives 70% Mastery, +16 WATK (iirc), and +20% Critical Damage at max.
- Combo Critical, at max, gives +20% passive Critical Rate PLUS 4% Crit Rate/10 combos, up to 100 combos. That means at 100+ Combos Combo Critical STILL GIVES 60% crit rate, but it's even better because you START with passive 20%. Also remember that Combo Critical currently works by increasing the crit damage by 10% every 10 combos (0-10 combos = 100% crit damage, 100+ = 200% damage). As far as I'm aware nothing has changed with that, so we still have big damage there.
- All classes now have a passive 5% crit rate at the start.
Add all of that together, and Arans, at 100+ Combos, now have 65% crit rate (higher than before) that deals 220% damage (higher than before). Throw in a Critical Ring and SE, and our crit rates hit 90%.
Also, all classes have passive mastery to which their respective Mastery skills adds to later. For Arans, that means our 70% mastery adds to our passive 20% mastery, meaning we keep our 90% mastery.
I'm probably wrong with the critical damage from Combo Critical since the whole system has changed, but I'll say this: the only reason I currently see to explain why Arans were nerfed is the plain fact that the crit system itself was nerfed, and as a class that relies on that damage we didn't get nearly enough of a buff on our base damage to compensate (like the other classes did). However, there's no denying that probability scrolling, +30% HP increase all around, etc. will definitely help some other issues with the class.
Like Baklava said, let's wait and see. The patch goes live in KMS in a day, and lord knows the Koreans will take a break from zerg rushing to see what's changed and to race each other uploading class specific YouTube videos.
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - rowenaxmarie - 2010-07-06
me like drk updates o_o
NOT THE COLOR THOUGH.
You'd think we'd have DARK skills since were DARK knights but the only dark thing we have is.. beholder.
Oh well.
I'm in to Aesthetics, what can i say n_n
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - Kalovale - 2010-07-07
FrozNlite Wrote:Also remember that Combo Critical currently works by increasing the crit damage by 10% every 10 combos (0-10 combos = 100% crit damage, 100+ = 200% damage). As far as I'm aware nothing has changed with that, so we still have big damage there.
1.2.318 Wrote:Combo critical
Description combo count every 10 to accumulate the probability rises to critical. \ N Required skill: # c # combo abilities over 20 levels
Max Level: 20
[Table = autonum = 1] Count Combo critical chance increased by 1% per 10, up to an increase in
Combo critical chance increased by 1% per 10-count, up to an increase in
Combo critical chance increased by 1% per 10-count, up to 2 times increase in
Combo critical chance increased by 1% per 10-count, up to 2 times increase in
Combo critical chance increased by 1% per 10-count up to three times increase in
Combo critical chance increased by 1% per 10-count up to three times increase in
Combo critical chance increased by 1% per 10-count, up to 4 times increase in
Combo critical chance increased by 1% per 10-count, up to 4 times increase in
Combo critical chance increased by 1% per 10-count, up to 5 times increase in
Combo critical chance increased by 2% per 10-count, up to 5 times increase in
Combo critical chance increased by 2% per 10-count, up to 6 times increase in
Combo critical chance increased by 2% per 10-count up to six times increase in
Combo critical chance increased by 2% per 10-count up to seven times increase in
Combo critical chance increased by 2% per 10-count up to seven times increase in
Combo critical chance increased by 2% per 10-count, up to 8 times increase in
Combo critical chance increased by 2% per 10-count, up to 8 times increase in
Combo critical chance increased by 2% per 10-count, increasing up to 9 times
Combo critical chance increased by 2% per 10-count, increasing up to 9 times
Combo critical chance increased by 2% per 10-count up to 10 times increase in
10 critical chance per combo count increased 3%, increasing up to 10 times [/ table]
1.2.321 Wrote:- Combo Critical's crit rate increased to +4%/10 attacks.
As well as I can see, it doesn't say anything about critical damage bonuses stacking up on top of one another.
[1.2.324] (3) Last chance! - MetaSeraphim - 2010-07-07
I have to say, I don't like the Dark Knight changes. It's not about damage either, it's just the way they've totally flipped them upside down and sideways.