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+---- Thread: Stun Mastery: multiplicative? (/showthread.php?tid=6224)
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Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - Russt - 2008-12-12
I was reading this and something struck me as weird.
44k SE crits, 15k noncrits. 44/15 = 2.9333...
With Barrage+SE, assuming stun mastery is additive like archer/sin crit, it'd be (230+140+60)% = 430% on crits. 430%/230% = 1.8696...
Something didn't add up here... so I tried taking the crit out in front as a multiplier. (100+140+60)% = 300% crits multiplied with the original damage. 300% = well, 3.
Is this the case, then? Does SM do a *1.6 instead of +60% like all other criticals?
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - Evilince - 2008-12-12
From what I have seen, stun mastery on it's own doesn't even do an extra 60% damage when maxed.
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - JoeTang - 2008-12-12
I've never seen any intensive data about Stun Criticals, but I had always assumed it was +160% because otherwise they would be extremely weak.
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - Russt - 2008-12-12
^ oh, in that case it would be 530%/230% = 2.3043...
Not as close as 3... dunno.
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - JoeTang - 2008-12-12
What level is TLeviathan's Barrage that he's hitting 15ks on?
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - Russt - 2008-12-12
Ooh, good point. I completely overlooked that >_>
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - Evilince - 2008-12-12
Barrage is weird, 15k at lvl 1 is not uncommon. It's supposed to be 6* 94% damage, but its more like 4 * 94% + 1 * 200% + 1 * 300%. And no, it's not + 160% damage, even without crit we are pretty strong.
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - JoeTang - 2008-12-12
He's talking about the final hit of Barrage, anyways, which has quadruple the power.
Thusly, if it were maxed, it would be something along the lines of
(230 * 4 + 140 + 60) vs (230 + 140 + 60) * 4 vs
(Barrage_Damage% * 4 + SE% + SM%) vs (Barrage_Damage% + SE% + SM%) * 4
Are multipliers not considered after the addition of SE?
(Inferno% + SE%) * Advantage?
(Power_Strike% + SE%) * Holy_Charge% * Advantage?
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - Russt - 2008-12-12
Okay, Fiel tested it, and this is what we concluded:
- It's definitely additive.
- Without SE, it adds +60% when stunned.
- With SE, it adds +160% on top of the SE boost when stunned. So it totals +300%, not +200% as you'd expect.
The discrepancy probably has to do with unmaxed Barrage when I assumed it was maxed.
@ Evilince
Yeah. Barrage doubles its damage on the 5th hit and doubles again on the 6th.
@ JT
I believe it was (Base * Advantage) + (Inferno% + SE%)
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - JoeTang - 2008-12-12
God damn, another crappy condition code.
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - TLeviathan - 2008-12-12
I thought I mentioned why it has unusual damage...
Barrage is supposedly 6*94% at lv1, but it isn't
It's 4 hits of 94%
1 hit of 94%*2
1 hit of 94%*4
That is from Fiel's formula, referenced in the same thread by Takebacker.
Crit, when applied, should go with the 94%
(94%+60%)*1 for the first 4
(94%+60%)*2 for the 5th hit
(94%+60%)*4 for the last
With SE, I thought it would be
(94%+60%+140%)*1 for first 4
(94%+60%+140%)*2 for the 5th
(94%+60%+140%)*4 for the final
The last hit should be 294%*4, so almost 1,200% of my range. I'd have to check my actual damage range again to see if this works (I don't think it's high enough, actually) but it's the closest I can guess so far. The max crit I had without SE was also 22k, the 16k is done hastily. So, SE goes from 22k to 54k, both were energy charged. 32,000/560 = ~6k max range... so yea... my formula isn't quite high enough even.
Your last few posts weren't up when I posted... and I don't know if your formula is right either. With SE, I'd be gaining 100% on the new stun mastery %, and 140% on se. This yields an extra 240%*4 to make up the 32k difference... 32,000/960 is more like a 3.3k range, whereas my max was about 4k.
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - JoeTang - 2008-12-12
Riight, riight, I remember now. Was too lazy to look up my source to double check.
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - Dusk - 2008-12-12
Nexon really wanted to make Buc formulas as complicated as possible <_<
So they do 75% chance of +300% damage per hit with max SE? wtp.
At least it makes up for their relatively low damage at bosses.
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - Worthyness - 2008-12-12
OMG at damage percentage *looks at measly 100%* Dx
well at least i have a boss worthy class to look forward to 0_o
still <3 SE
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - JoeTang - 2008-12-12
Dusk Wrote:Nexon really wanted to make Buc formulas as complicated as possible <_<
So they do 75% chance of +300% damage per hit with max SE? wtp.
At least it makes up for their relatively low damage at bosses.
No it doesn't because bosses can't be stunned.
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - TLeviathan - 2008-12-12
Assuming my max range was 4k (it was close) and I hit my maxes at 22k and 54k, the difference in critical % is 800... meaning the total crit on the skill is roughly 1040%. That means 260% *4. Assuming SE is still +140%, stun mastery somehow doubles. I'm going to go play around with just barrage + se and see what I get.
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - Russt - 2008-12-12
@ TLeviathan
According to what I have, you should be maxing at about 17k noncrit, 28k crit without SE, and 72k crit with SE.
-shrug-
Here's his results
110% double upper, 1000~1000 damage range
Stun crit, no SE: 1700 1700
With SE: 4100 4100
88% backspin, 1000~1000 damage range
With SE: 3880 3880
180% barrage, 100~100 damage range
Stun crit, no SE: 241 241 241 241 482 964
With SE: 481 481 481 481 962 1925
(Ignore the ones digit on every number, the damage range was slightly off of exactly 100.)
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - TLeviathan - 2008-12-12
Misread, will re-test. I'll go to slimes for negligible def.
Lv2 barrage now, 98%*4 for the last hit, but still doing slightly less than 15k to slimes no-crit. 3840 max range in this test, 3840*(.98)*4 gives 15052, so that part alone is close. Even if I had my charged range and lv1 barrage again, it's still 15k (about 20 damage less in theory than my current setup)... I don't see the 17k anywhere. The most damage I've ever seen myself do is low 60k's, and that includes MW19 and lv2 barrage. Not close to 72k...
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - Dusk - 2008-12-12
JoeTang Wrote:No it doesn't because bosses can't be stunned.
I meant that having high damage with the stuns when training makes up for their mediocreness at bosses.
Stun Mastery: multiplicative? - Russt - 2008-12-12
TLeviathan Wrote:Misread, will re-test. I'll go to slimes for negligible def.Well, I was using an approximation for your base range, which seems to have been off
Lv2 barrage now, 98%*4 for the last hit, but still doing slightly less than 15k to slimes no-crit. 3840 max range in this test, 3840*(.98)*4 gives 15052, so that part alone is close. Even if I had my charged range and lv1 barrage again, it's still 15k (about 20 damage less in theory than my current setup)... I don't see the 17k anywhere. The most damage I've ever seen myself do is low 60k's, and that includes MW19 and lv2 barrage. Not close to 72k...
You should be doing 15k without crit, 24k with crit, and 61k with SE. That fit better?