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+---- Thread: Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! (/showthread.php?tid=48977)
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Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - Baklava - 2011-11-19
Thread title.
Knight:
Shield Mastery -> Defense Mastery
Old: Physical/magical defense +200%, guard rate +10% when equipped with a shield, master level 20.
New: Physical/magical defense +200%, guard rate +30% at all times, master level 30.
Charge Blow
Old: Damage 550%, hits 4 monsters, master level 30.
New: Damage 250% x2, hits 3 monsters, ignores 10% defense, 100% chance of stun, master level 20.
Flame Charge
Old: Damage 140%, 90% chance of 100% DoT damage on charge blow.
New: Damage 150%, 90% chance of 100% DoT damage on charge blow, 5% passive damage boost.
Blizzard Charge
Old: Damage 140%, 90% chance of freeze on charge blow.
New: Damage 125%, 50% chance of freeze on all attacks, 5% passive damage boost.
Lightning Charge
Old: Damage 140%, 90% chance of stun on charge blow, master level 20.
New: Damage 125%, 5% passive damage boost, master level 10.
Combat Orders -> Combat Tactics
Old: All skills increased level by +2, master level 20.
New: Increases you and your party's weapon mastery by 5%, master level 10.
New Skill -> Charge Eruption
New: AoE attack, deals 95% x 5 to 6 mobs in a 350px horizontal and vertical range, 5% defense ignore, master level 20.
Delay: 1410ms
Restoration -> Elemental Reset
New: Same deal as the arch mage stuff.
Paladin:
Achilles -> Holy Armor
Old: Decreases damage taken by 20%
New: Decreases physical damage taken by 15%, decrease magical damage taken by 25%, increase elemental damage resistance by 50%.
Guardian Spirit
Old: Increases status effect resistance by 30%, 30% guard rate, 40% stun on guarded mob attacks, master level 30.
New: Increases status effect resistance by 50%, +15% guard rate to Defense Mastery.
All party members within 600px gain an aura effect that grants them a 20% guard rate as long as the paladin is alive. 20% chance when the party member is hit to create a divine aura that grants the party member 5 perfect guards. Master level 20.
Advanced Charge Blow -> Charge Mastery
Old: Charge Blow damage change to 700%, weapon mastery increased to 70%.
New:
Adds one extra hit to Charge Blow (250% x3), increases mobs hit to 5.
Increases Charge Eruption damage to 135% per hit, increases mobs hit to 8.
Increases flame charge's DoT damage to 140%.
Increases blizzard charge's freeze rate to 90%.
Blast
Old: 340% Damage, 50% Critical Rate, 10% chance of sudden death, 30% defense ignore.
New: 350% Damage, 55% Critical Rate, 10% chance of sudden death, 20% defense ignore.
Blessing Armor
Old: 30% chance when attacked to create a shield that grants 10 perfect guards for 90 seconds, +30 attack increase.
New: 30% chance when attacked to create a shield that grants 15 perfect guards for 60 seconds. Passively increases attack by +30
Divine Charge:
Old: 150% Damage, 90% chance to seal a mob with charge blow.
New: 145% Damage, +20% damage to bosses. Passively increases mastery by 20%. (Total of 95% mastery)
Sanctuary:
Old: Deals 1700% flat.
New: No damage value, always does 999,998 or whatever.
New Skill -> Fierce Threaten
New: Passively increases Threaten's monster attack and defense decrease by 15%. Grants effect on boss monsters that slows their attacks by 20%. Increases defense ignore on all skills by 10%
OK W/E
DPS THIS pineappleER, JOE TANG.
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - ShinkuDragon - 2011-11-19
i disagree with two things:
it's easy enough to hit defense cap with shield mastery, you're only nerfing your M.Def doing that change
guardian spirit should provide a defense increase, i'm sure they enjoy that more than a chance to block if they get OHKO'd, which seems to be what new bosses are all about
also, charge eruption is not really paladinlike, it's too good, mobs better than impale already, and with more PDR ignore. <.<
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - Baklava - 2011-11-19
ShinkuDragon Wrote:i disagree with two things:
it's easy enough to hit defense cap with shield mastery, you're only nerfing your M.Def doing that change
guardian spirit should provide a defense increase, i'm sure they enjoy that more than a chance to block if they get OHKO'd, which seems to be what new bosses are all about
also, charge eruption is not really paladinlike, it's too good, mobs better than impale already, and with more PDR ignore. <.<
Derp forgot about the cap. WHAT DO, INCREASE CAP GO.
A defense increase would be meager to classes that have low HP and low defense to begin with, avoiding damage altogether would be more efficient. :/
Dark Impale has 20% defense ignore, Charge Eruption would have only 10%.
And it would have the 1210ms cast delay like Soul Driver so it would be marginally slower and only effective in large mobs.
It's basically just Soul Driver with one more hit.
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - Justin - 2011-11-19
I think paladins are fine the way they are FOR THE MOST PART...they just need something to not move like slugs, and Nexon needs to quit doing this "hurrdurr bosses b resist to ERRY ELEMENT" bullcrap. Or at least give Paladins the option to "reset" their elemental charges....
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - ShinkuDragon - 2011-11-19
Baklava Wrote:Derp forgot about the cap. WHAT DO, INCREASE CAP GO.
A defense increase would be meager to classes that have low HP and low defense to begin with, avoiding damage altogether would be more efficient. :/
Dark Impale has 20% defense ignore, Charge Eruption would have only 10%.
And it would have the 1210ms cast delay like Soul Driver so it would be marginally slower and only effective in large mobs.
It's basically just Soul Driver with one more hit.
in such case, then yes, i still prefer the extra M.def though, since it's what most bosses use.
for some reason i read it wrong and read it as having 30% pdr, misread lol, but isn't SD 1600 ms delay (at normal speed)?
and i didn't mean a defense increase, i meant something like achilles effect for the party, like aran's high defense or blue aura.
want to know what would be a VERY nice skill? make the HP recovery skill go past zombify and a party skill, that way even if the damage a paladin deals isn't the best, they provide healing and threathen plus guardian spirit makes them share some of the paladin's bulkyness. it would be very wanted against both bosses that spam 1/1, pot lock, or have pot cooldown.
also lol 99% mastery, i want that just for the hilarity, DAT DAMAGE.
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - JoeTang - 2011-11-19
I don't know why everyone thinks their class is entitled or justified to be the most overpowered piece of pomegranate in the game, but they're not.
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - Baklava - 2011-11-19
JoeTang Wrote:I don't know why everyone thinks their class is entitled or justified to be the most overpowered piece of pomegranate in the game, but they're not.
This is overpowered?
1% more mastery...4% more blast damage...nerfed ice, holy, and lightning charges, nerfed charge blow.
...for some passive attack, party defense, and multi-hit charge blow.
There's a difference between justified entitlement and making a class not completely suck.
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - JoeTang - 2011-11-19
Baklava Wrote:This is overpowered?
1% more mastery...4% more blast damage...nerfed ice, holy, and lightning charges, nerfed charge blow.
...for some passive attack, party defense, and multi-hit charge blow.
There's a difference between justified entitlement and making a class not completely suck.
This thing does like over 5000%/s at Fastest (2). You fundamentally can't make a Paladin balanced on neutral targets unless you remove their elemental advantage and disadvantage. There will always be something they suck at more, and something they don't suck at. i.e. 5000%/s with disadvantage turns into 2500%/s, but with advantage turns into 7500%/s. It's going to suck either way.
Also, Charge Eruption is retarded and does about as much damage as Blast does now.
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - Dark Link - 2011-11-19
The removal of CO's +2 Skills seems to hurt more than you think, even with the tweaks.
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - Baklava - 2011-11-19
JoeTang Wrote:This thing does like over 5000%/s at Fastest (2). You fundamentally can't make a Paladin balanced on neutral targets unless you remove their elemental advantage and disadvantage. There will always be something they suck at more, and something they don't suck at. i.e. 5000%/s with disadvantage turns into 2500%/s, but with advantage turns into 7500%/s. It's going to suck either way.
Also, Charge Eruption is retarded and does about as much damage as Blast does now.
What the hell, that's not supposed to look like that. Eruption should be soul driver speed, so I'm not sure how it's supposed to do as much as blast.
There's no way nexon is going to drop their "EVERYTHING RESISTANT TO ALL ELEMENTS" gimmick so...
How the hell is it doing 5000%/s? On 70% PDR? Man, pineapple math, how do these little percents make gigantic changes.
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - JoeTang - 2011-11-19
You decreased Divine Charge by 5% and gave them a passive 1.25x from Lightning Charge, and a 1.2x boss from Divine Charge, and gave it a lot more ignore defense.
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - Baklava - 2011-11-19
Welp, that's what I get for abusing copy paste.
EDIT: Welp, I tried it again. I didn't realize I had defense ignores stacking everywhere. :l
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - Alloy - 2011-11-19
So, you are taking Paladin's specialness and crapping on it? nice.
I'm talking about Combat Orders. A skill that improves everything overall. Even 1% more stats granted as long as anyone has MW. Mastery already added on some classes with advanced mastery at 4th job. As it increases the skill points there.
It's actually a nerf, your suggestion.
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - IllegallySane - 2011-11-19
Best way to make Paladins not suck? Give Paladins the ability to absorb up to 25%~50% of all party damage (not including 1/1s for sanity sake), where at level 1 the Paladin takes 50% of all incoming damage, but eventually caps out at ~5%-10% damage taken. PALADINS ARE NOW TECHNICALLY TANKS.
So say at Empress, the whole party gets smacked for ~10k damage each. With a Paladin they only take 5k damage. Up to 5k x 5 party members = 25k gets redirected to Paladin. 5%-10% of that = Paladin takes an additional 1,250-2,500 damage on top of whatever he'll take from the hit itself, BUT PARTY SURVIVES WAY BETTER.
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - Baklava - 2011-11-19
Alloy Wrote:So, you are taking Paladin's specialness and crapping on it? nice.
I'm talking about Combat Orders. A skill that improves everything overall. Even 1% more stats granted as long as anyone has MW. Mastery already added on some classes with advanced mastery at 4th job. As it increases the skill points there.
It's actually a nerf, your suggestion.
I thought out specialty was that we can't die?
Combat Orders is like, not as spectacular of a buff as you're making it out to be.
IllegallySane Wrote:So say at Empress, the whole party gets smacked for ~10k damage each. With a Paladin they only take 5k damage. Up to 5k x 5 party members = 25k gets redirected to Paladin. 5%-10% of that = Paladin takes an additional 1,250-2,500 damage on top of whatever he'll take from the hit itself, BUT PARTY SURVIVES WAY BETTER.
But then the paladin dies and so everyone dies.
?_?
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - Alloy - 2011-11-19
Baklava Wrote:I thought out specialty was that we can't die?
Combat Orders is like, not as spectacular of a buff as you're making it out to be.
Specialness isn't speciality. You are special for having such a unique skill, while being an expert in survival. And yes, it's as good as you don't think, depending on the class.
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - MuscleWizard - 2011-11-19
but i love combat orders
all my friends love combat orders too. o no
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - FenixR - 2011-11-19
IllegallySane Wrote:Best way to make Paladins not suck? Give Paladins the ability to absorb up to 25%~50% of all party damage (not including 1/1s for sanity sake), where at level 1 the Paladin takes 50% of all incoming damage, but eventually caps out at ~5%-10% damage taken. PALADINS ARE NOW TECHNICALLY TANKS.
So say at Empress, the whole party gets smacked for ~10k damage each. With a Paladin they only take 5k damage. Up to 5k x 5 party members = 25k gets redirected to Paladin. 5%-10% of that = Paladin takes an additional 1,250-2,500 damage on top of whatever he'll take from the hit itself, BUT PARTY SURVIVES WAY BETTER.
Make it so the paladin reduce a % of that absorbed damage and you get something going in there. Instead of 25k Redirected to the paladin he nullify like 25-50% of that damage. That way the palladin doesnt die due to his own skill.
And yes that was a nerf to Combat Orders. The amount of damage some classes get by the use of Combat order its vastly superior to that 5% mastery you are giving.
And what you did to blast was supposed to be a Buff?
Also no on the "No Shield" Defense mastery, otherwise how the pineapple do you block those attacks? With your head?
Yes on the passively increase to weapon attack on blessing armor, no on reducing the Duration and increasing the number of guards.
Dont the Old guardian reduces Elemental damage? I though reading in the tooltip in the past...
Achilles Damage reduction applied to both, so no need to really do anything to it. (Even more so if guardian did increase elemental defense not sure)
Charges giving you passive "Damage Boost" without being on its a "No" in my book.
Also i want elemental reset to be its own skill, and make it so Restoration gets and increased Cooldown but be able to use it without the need of MP (Maybe even increase the % healed to 50-60%)
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - IllegallySane - 2011-11-20
Baklava Wrote:But then the paladin dies and so everyone dies.
?_?
FenixR Wrote:Make it so the paladin reduce a % of that absorbed damage and you get something going in there. Instead of 25k Redirected to the paladin he nullify like 25-50% of that damage. That way the palladin doesnt die due to his own skill.
You guys misunderstood my point. Going to clarify what I meant:
The gist of the skill: A party skill that absorbs up to 50% of all damage from party members. 5%~10% (your pick) of that damage will get applied to the Paladin, while the rest of the damage is ignored.
1. Empress hits everyone in the party for 10k
2a. SuperSpecialPaladinTankSkill absorbs 50% of the damage from every party member, up to 5.
2b. Party members only take 5k damage each
2c. 50% of 10k = 5k. 5k x 5 = 25k TOTAL damage gets redirected to the Paladin
3. Paladin takes only 5%-10% of THAT total damage = 1,250-2,500 additional damage is taken by the Paladin
4. Paladin ALSO takes whatever damage Empress deals, which in this case is ~10k (before all damage reduction skills apply)
5. TOTAL DAMAGE: 10k + 1,250~2,500 = 11,250~12,500 damage to the Paladin, assuming the Paladin gets hit by the Empress at all. In most cases, all of the Paladin's passive blocking abilities should nullify the 10k from the Empress a trollsomely high amount of times. In most cases, the Paladin would take only the measly 1,250-2,500 damage, assuming all 5 party members get hit at once. Unless your whole party is made of warriors, only ~2-3 should be getting hit on average. A mere drop in the bucket of the Paladin's high HP pool.
If it helps, the damage gets applied separately from Empress damage, meaning it'd allow more chances to proc blocking, or Auto-pot.
Let's make Paladins not suck like a donkey's rectum! - FenixR - 2011-11-20
I see, but 5-10% of that damage seems too low, balance wise it should be 50-70% of that damage being applied to the paladin while nullfing 30-50%, once again Balance wise.