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+--- Thread: Honoring the Dead? (/showthread.php?tid=3103)
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Honoring the Dead? - Hazzy - 2008-09-04
I was watching McCain's speech when he said something about a guy who died in Iraq(?). This rose a question.
Why do we honor the dead?
Death is quick. Swift. Painless. Even for the families, the pain will go away for the most part after time. Life moves on.
While people come back missing limbs.
Losing a leg will pineapple you over for the rest of your life. It will pineapple over you emotionally, and financialy. You'll never be the same. Life won't 'just move on'.
Why do we honor the dead when the maimed suffer much, much more. <_<
Honoring the Dead? - Doooug - 2008-09-04
Death isn't quick or painless for everyone.
Honoring the Dead? - Lana♥ - 2008-09-04
wow has anyone really close to you died before? :/
Umm cause it's respectful..we are honoring their life. There is a reason why people have been honoring the dead since like forever. Do you want them to just move on and live just like nothing happened? especially for someone like a soldier who is fighting for your country. Come on
If you want details of why so many cultures honor the dead and it's importance then use this website.http://www.google.com
To quote from FF IX To be forgotten is worse than death [SIZE="1"]<~ omg pineapple cant believe i just quoted from ff[/SIZE]
Honoring the Dead? - Hazzy - 2008-09-04
I never said they should be ignored, but I'm saying living without an arm or leg is a hell lot worse for both you and your family.
Doooug Wrote:Death isn't quick or painless for everyone.
Even a month in the ER is quick compared to a life time of living without limbs. ._.
Sit back and think, how would your life change if you lost your right arm?
Honoring the Dead? - Wani - 2008-09-04
Honouring the dead and funerals and such are more for the living than the dead. Let's face it, unless you come back as a ghost, you don't see your own funeral or memorials or whatever.
Honestly, I dunno if I'd even like my own funeral.
I've made a few requests but people would probably just think I'm joking. <_< I FREAKING WANT THE PHRASE "WANIWANIWANIIMASU" IN MY FUNERAL AT LEAST ONCE!Actually. I should organise my will so that whoever says the word "Wani" in their eulogy the most, will get the most inheritance.
Honoring the Dead? - Sign - 2008-09-04
Well, I don't know which is worse, me losing an arm, or a family member losing their life, since I haven't experienced both. No matter what I think, far be it from me to judge how someone else reacts! Really, if they want to mourn, why on earth would I have the right to look down on them for it?
Well, since we're talking in pretty careless terms about people with disabilities, let me dwell on that a bit. How WOULD you want people to react to you if you lost both of your arms? If it comes to that, how would you want people to react to you, if you had had multiple brainstem strokes and not only lost the use of your arms but also your eyelids, voice, mouth, legs, trunk, and a bunch of other voluntary and involuntary muscles in your body?
Sure, you might garner financial support (unlikely if you're not elderly), or uncomfortable sympathy from your friends. But would that really be what you'd want your life to become? People to say, "Oh you poor thing," or even nothing at all? Would you really just want to be pitied? Oh come on. There is so much more to disabilities than just looking at someone and seeing "what someone can't do anymore." There can still be dignity in disability. And, returning to the topic, there can still be dignity in death.
Honouring the dead is a way of respecting each other, and knowing that different people react differently. It's also a way of respecting ourselves, when we look back at our own behaviour and the consequences that came later. No matter what we individually think about how people SHOULD react, we honour the dead in quiet recognition that everyone does behave differently - everyone does still have the right to mourn.
Honoring the Dead? - Hazzy - 2008-09-04
Ok, misinterpitation here.
I meant honoring those who died in combat, not dieing in general.
Honoring the Dead? - Sign - 2008-09-04
Apologies for my excessively long post. I guess what my response to that is, what gives us the right to judge whether the family of a dead person is suffering more than the family of a disabled person? Is grief at the loss of a loved one worth any less than grief at the loss of a loved one's abilities?
No. I will say that most of us have no right to pass that judgment.
Honoring the Dead? - Rob - 2008-09-04
I agree with Hazzy.... but in part.
Yeah, losing an arm or a leg is a pain in the ass for you and your family, because you have to deal with it EVERYDAY. But we tend to respect the ones who passed away for the simple fact that we want to keep them close as they were when alive. And right after someone dies, despite the death itself is painless and quick, the process to assume that person ain't between us anymore IS painful, see?
Honoring the Dead? - Wani - 2008-09-05
What does bug me, is people who just do things like honour the dead or other sorts of things to make themselves look better, and not out of any respect for the dead.
Honoring the Dead? - Rob - 2008-09-05
yeah, well, but that's topic for another thread
Honoring the Dead? - GMSInfighter - 2008-09-05
Were gonna have to honor John McCain soon enough
Honoring the Dead? - Sign - 2008-09-05
RobMdza. What's worse for you, a parent having Alzheimer's, a parent losing an arm, or a parent dying? I honestly believe the boundary is much more blurry than just "bleh, funerals are just a social ritual."
Wani, I see your point - maybe our gripe is that certain politicians just mention "honouring the dead" for leverage, ie, popularity contest...and therefore are actually disrespecting the dead? There's many ways you can talk about someone without intending to respect them at all.
Honoring the Dead? - Rob - 2008-09-05
Sign Wrote:RobMdza. What's worse for you, a parent having Alzheimer's, a parent losing an arm, or a parent dying? I honestly believe the boundary is much more blurry than just "bleh, funerals are just a social ritual."
I think you didn't get my point. I have one of my grandfathers, two of my aunts and one cousin that passed away, and none of the experiences is nice. I hated crying a week in my bedroom thinking of my cousin. But it is what it is, and here's when I agree w/ Hazzy, we have to move on, because you won't be sitting for months and months crying. (even though some people do).
And about the funerals, I do hate them, because they only show desperation and sadness, and the only thing they provoke are more loneliness to the ones who loved the person that passed away (oh, and I don't want to go further into funerals I've attended where you see people that don't really care about the dead one and are there just to fake sadness and pretend they are concerned).
Honoring the Dead? - Hazzy - 2008-09-05
Lana♥ Wrote:wow has anyone really close to you died before? :/
Two lizards and a hamster. Does that count?
Moarning sucks. It's a horrible feeling, but it last only a short while. Unless you push your self, things tend to blow by after a month or so. Losing a limb fucks you for live. I'm right handed; if I lost my right arm, I'd have to learn to type one handed, to write with my left, to get dressed with one arm. I might even need special clothing. <.< If I ever got attacked or into a fight, I'd be screwed - legs only work so much, missing an arm leaves me wide open. I'd almost certainly be ridiculed, and so forth.
tl;dr
People get over death. It stops affecting your life sooner or later.
Limb loss doesn't.
Honoring the Dead? - Sign - 2008-09-05
RobMdza: Yeah, I cried too. Grief breaks you anyway, no matter whether or not the dead are honoured. A very close friend lost their main caregiver when they were 14 years old. You're talking much longer than weeks or months - I'm still seeing it, two years on. It affects personality, family interactions, lifestyle, lots of factors with long-term effects. And some days they will still be breaking down and crying and, sometimes, still asking "Why?". Hazzy is well-intentioned but, respectfully, I don't think he realises what a big deal it is for a loved one to die.
And, yeah, regards funerals. I dunno. For me, the funeral is not the "main part" of the grieving process by any stretch of the imagination. I still don't see any harm in honouring the dead.
Honoring the Dead? - Rob - 2008-09-05
Sign Wrote:RobMdza: Yeah, I cried too. Grief breaks you anyway, no matter whether or not the dead are honoured. A very close friend lost their main caregiver when they were 14 years old. You're talking much longer than weeks or months - I'm still seeing it, two years on. It affects personality, family interactions, lifestyle, lots of factors with long-term effects. And some days they will still be breaking down and crying and, sometimes, still asking "Why?". Hazzy is well-intentioned but, respectfully, I don't think he realises what a big deal it is for a loved one to die.
And, yeah, regards funerals. I dunno. For me, the funeral is not the "main part" of the grieving process by any stretch of the imagination. I still don't see any harm in honouring the dead.
Yeah, well, Hazzy is well-intententioned. However, you talk truth when you say that it affects almost everything related to your life. But here's the problem, no matter how, you HAVE to move on. Just to make things easier. Picture it like this (sorry beforehand the stupid comparison): you win a fortune in the lottery, and u get it stolen, you won't regret for life. If not, you're screwed. (I apologize for the bad talking, it's late and I'm exhausted)
Honoring the Dead? - Lana♥ - 2008-09-05
Hazzy Wrote:Two lizards and a hamster. Does that count?
tl;dr
People get over death. It stops affecting your life sooner or later.
Limb loss doesn't.
Oh okay then yeah since you never really had someone close to you die then it is hard to understand~
Honoring the Dead? - Doooug - 2008-09-05
Hazzy Wrote:Even a month in the ER is quick compared to a life time of living without limbs. ._.
Sit back and think, how would your life change if you lost your right arm?
At least I wouldn't be dead.
But erm, I think it depends a lot on how close you were to the person.
Of course losing someone that you knew for all your life and cared for would be a lot harder to deal with than losing say... an aquaintence.
Honoring the Dead? - Sign - 2008-09-05
Mmm. In one sense, you move on - that is, after a certain time, most people will finally be functioning at an acceptable level in everyday life (DSM-IV says it's 6 months). In another sense, you never move on. Nothing will ever fill that void, ever, ever, and (as far as I can tell) you will always carry that around with you.
It also doesn't help that things can never be the same again. Some things can't be begun because other things weren't completed. Widows may remarry, often to the anger and continual grief of children. Parents who have lost a child see their child's former friends growing up, graduating, getting married, things their child will now never do. That grief is fresh every single time. Eventually it may become muted; never does it fully disappear.
Hazzy said, "Life moves on." Well, of course it does, for anyone. But not always unchanged. for some, life will never be the same, whether after death, disability, or any of a whole host of painful life events, and it really doesn't change the fact that we should still respect all of those, regardless. I trust Hazzy would agree on that point too.