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+--- Thread: The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? (/showthread.php?tid=2861)
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Kawasari Mimoto - 2008-08-28
I'm going to explain what I'm trying to say, I want multiple perspectives of things from you guys. Also, note that I'm not saying that because I have a NL with 81-base DEX.. Anyways, during this recent patch, me and a couple of my Night Lord friends were rather disappointed. I'm sure the DEXless-NL/Hermit community is quite pleased though, they have everything handed to their ass because of this patch.
Quote:Night Raven's Claw
Thief only - Claw
Req Level: 90
Req LUK: 300
WDEF: +5
Weapon Attack: +40
LUK: +2
Faster(3)
7 slots
^Lv 90 DEXless Claw.
Quote:Req Level: 90
Req DEX: 130
Req LUK: 260
WDEF: +5
Weapon Attack: +45
LUK: +2
Fast(4)
7 slots
^Lv 90 DEX'ed Claw.
See the difference? 5 attack difference for the DEX claw. The other one requires a lot of LUK, and 0 DEX, meaning DEXless. Sure, you may say 5 attack gives this one the advantage, but what about the amount of DEX needed to weild this one? That and with the amount if LUK accumulated in stats+gear, the DEXless Hermit / Night Lord will eventually win.
Before, imo, there was a balance. Where Skanda-users and DEXless-Craven users HAD a slight balance, they both were DEXless (base stats), but the only difference was that the Craven-user had to wear DEX gear to weild a Craven. There was a balance because if you studied a NL's LUK-into-att conversion formula, how much LUK = ? att depends on your total weapon attack points vs your total accumulated LUK points. 1 point of att > several points into LUK.
There WAS a balance. Now with the new DEXless claw, there is no balance. DEXless-NLs automatically win if they can manage to land a couple 30s and 60s on the new claw. =/
As for Mages, we already know how this has effected everything. The new elemental LUKless-wand has pissed off many mages/priests/bishops that actually HAS LUK in their stats.
So here's my question, at the rate things are going, do you think Nexon will release more ___-less weapons / equipments, and if so, will this completely shatter the balance between classes?
For example: DEXless-Raven Night Lord vs DEXless-Craven Night Lord
Bishop with a elemental LUKless Wand vs a Bishop with a Doomsday Staff
Discuss!
-Lord of the Night Sky
EDIT: Major edit, regarding Warriors:
Though, with recent patches, the balance between DEXless Warriors vs DEX'ed Warriors are becoming closer, since they are releasing STR-overall scrolls, and the Crimson Arcglaive, which requires DEX to be equipped.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Corn - 2008-08-28
MUA HA HA HA HA US DEXLESS ASSASSINS WILL KS THE WORLD FOREVER!!!
/end
It's going to be near impossible to forge these though..
Don't see any yet on the forging list...none in the fm...so they are incredibly rare...
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Ranylyn - 2008-08-28
I agree with you 100%. 90 dexless claw is unbalanced enough, but 13x lukless wand? I don't care how rare they are, they shouldn't exist, period. The classes are unbalanced as is without this bullshit.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - randompeep - 2008-08-28
No. The Raven Claw requires exchange questing with Joko. Still incredibly hard to get, though.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Kawasari Mimoto - 2008-08-28
randompeep Wrote:No. The Raven Claw requires exchange questing with Joko. Still incredibly hard to get, though.
Doesn't matter. People already started forging the Balanced Fury. With the amount of DEXless-Hermits/NLs out there, they'll find a way to get them. If anything, within a month from now, or less, you might see a couple clean ones in FM. =/
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - randompeep - 2008-08-28
Dexless Raven Claw + Balanced Fury = Destruction of all other classes? =x
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Itachi54647 - 2008-08-28
I know you get the Raven claw from Joko but does anybody know what the forging materials needed to upgrade it, with Fiona to the dexless claw, are?
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Kawasari Mimoto - 2008-08-28
randompeep Wrote:Dexless Raven Claw + Balanced Fury = Destruction of all other classes? =x
Not necessarily. More like destruction of "DEXless-Scarab/Mamba/Casters/Craven/Dragon Sleeve". >_>;;
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Corn - 2008-08-28
Don't include te balanced fury in this, regular assassins can use them too.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Kawasari Mimoto - 2008-08-28
ClawofBeta Wrote:Don't include te balanced fury in this, regular assassins can use them too.
Well, the Balanced Fury doesn't have much to do with it. But if people HAS managed to forge one, and in fact, one certain person from SW posted SS'es of him having a set.. There are probably more people, but they don't want to attract attention (which is smart).
So, what makes people thinks that DEXless-NLs won't stop trying to get the new DEXless Claw? =| Because a Balanced Fury is almost as hard to get, you need all 3 Taos, and a hell lot of Black Crystals..
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - randompeep - 2008-08-28
I said that because therefore no one would want to be anything else other than dexless sin or bishop. (and maybe Viper when pirate comes out). >.> x2
@Beta's Balanced Fury: They're even harder to make, as you have to get Joko to cough up 3 Taos, instead of one Raven Claw.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Corn - 2008-08-28
Actually, I'm kind of neutral on this issue (I'm a dexless sin you know =O).
But even I agree it's unbalanced...Nexon should pump a little more points onto that dexed clas.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Cyanne - 2008-08-28
Do you know how hard it is to get a night raven's claw? First of all, you need a base raven's claw, which probably comes from nightshadows. In the several weeks since the patch, only ONE has been reported to be found in the entire global version. There are probably one or a couple more raven claws out there, but it just shows how rare they are. Also, nightshadows are the least hunted and strongest monster of the 4, and the exchange rate doesn't help. You also need a tao to upgrade it to night, which requires specifically the tao of shadows. Getting one tao is hard enough; getting specifically the tao of shadows is harder. Taos are extremely rarely found from the firebrand exchange, and only several have been found since the patch. They're also needed to make all the other fiona items, such as the stars and the fast speed 2h sword, so they'll be very expensive and hard to come by.
Since the night raven claw would be extremely rare and/or expensive, I doubt anyone would be willing to 30% it more than about once, whereas people aren't afraid to 30% skandas and such many times. It seems only useful for white scrolling.
I agree with the lukless wand thing though, it was a stupid idea to put them in in the first place.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Beserker101 - 2008-08-28
Although, we can always count on the greediest of damage whores to try and 30% the thing all the way and end up blowing them up, and with these being as hard to get as they are, it would definitely slow down the number of them in circulation.
As for DEXless warriors, yeah, that is getting a little more balanced but only a little. The level 90 DEX sword (night raven wing) is a fast (5) speed, while the dusk (I think, correct me if I am wrong) raven wing has a normal (6) speed but also has more weapon attack on it along with adding more STR while it's clean. Yet again though, both of these are very rare.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Nikkey - 2008-08-28
ClawofBeta Wrote:Don't include te balanced fury in this, regular assassins can use them too.
It favours dexless. 1 more attack is more damage increase for a dexless hermit than for a dex-hermit.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Corn - 2008-08-28
Devil's Sunrise Wrote:It favours dexless. 1 more attack is more damage increase for a dexless hermit than for a dex-hermit.
Wahh...?
Where did you get that from?
I knew one attack equals more luck as you get higher and higher as a level...but what?
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Nikkey - 2008-08-28
ClawofBeta Wrote:Wahh...?
Where did you get that from?
I knew one attack equals more luck as you get higher and higher as a level...but what?
Common sense.
Increase of damage per added attack is (luk * 3.6 + str + dex) / 100 (for max dmg)
if dex is lowered and luk is increased, you'll have an increase in base stats before applying weapon attack in. Therefore, if both paths can use an equip, luckless would be off better if the items contains attack.
Oh and yeah, it favours dexless, but doesn't annihilate a normal dex.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - Corn - 2008-08-28
Ah...I always assumed it just depended on your level, not how much luk you have.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - butterfλi - 2008-08-28
ClawofBeta Wrote:Ah...I always assumed it just depended on your level, not how much luk you have.
...and how much luk you have is determined by what level you are.
Debating between [stat]less vs "normal" builds is like pitting archmages vs bishops. It's obvious who's gonna win and the game designers aren't bothered with trying to make them equal.
Dexless warriors usually outdamage low/normal dex warriors.
Dexless thieves usually outdamage low/normal dex thieves (fandits/skandas).
Lukless magicians usually outdamage low/normal luk magicians.
The ___-less path, the downfall of MS? - DrRusty - 2008-08-28
It would be a great build to go dexless with luk equips and use a well scrolled one of those. That's if ANYONE can get ahold of one at all. I, for one, have never seen nor heard of anyone having one.