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+--- Thread: Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken (/showthread.php?tid=1980)
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Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - Furnost - 2008-08-05
I apologize in advance if this is in the wrong section...if it is please feel free to move it.
I have been horntailing for a few months now and being the main seduce bishop on the runs I can't help but have the tail cross my mind every now and then. I have seen screenshots from MSea of a Bishop w/invincible taking 24k damage, however, after talking to my friend (18x Bishop), I found out she had about 5xx weapon def and took 17k damage.
Now we both have pendants + egg so the added 2xx weapon def helps tremendously but I was just wondering if anyone had or knew of a weapon defense calculator that could let me calculate how much damage I would take from a tail hit.
Note: My friend has about 570 ish weapon defense w/Bless and I have about 500 so I am just wondering what the 70 weapon def difference would make because if I can manage a hit from the HT tail it'd make saving seduce alot easier (sorta lol).
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - Stereo - 2008-08-05
Unbuffed tail does about 18k max to someone with Invincible (dropping to 17.5k with wdef), however the wings can cast a w.atk buff which boosts them up to around 20.5k. I'm pretty sure if someone took 24k then they didn't have Invincible on.
There's no wdef calculator.
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - Acim - 2008-08-05
I believe 1 DEF = 0.5 damage taken off, but I could be wrong and I probably am.
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - Cheesecake - 2008-08-05
im pretty sure it's every 3 def take off 1 damage
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - Takebacker - 2008-08-05
Stereo Wrote:Unbuffed tail does about 18k max to someone with Invincible (dropping to 17.5k with wdef), however the wings can cast a w.atk buff which boosts them up to around 20.5k. I'm pretty sure if someone took 24k then they didn't have Invincible on.
There's no wdef calculator.
I've seen the tail do something like 33k damage somewhere...i'm trying to remember where. D:
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - Stereo - 2008-08-07
Takebacker Wrote:I've seen the tail do something like 33k damage somewhere...i'm trying to remember where. D:
The original Horntail was a lot stronger, his tail does only about 29k buffed now as far as I know. It's a lot lower for Bishops because Invincible is a straight 30% reduction to damage.
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - Harrisonized - 2008-08-07
Interesting how Maple's been out this long and nobody bothered finding out the wep def formula. Most of the other formulas have been found already.
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - Hotshot - 2008-08-07
Harrisonized Wrote:Interesting how Maple's been out this long and nobody bothered finding out the wep def formula. Most of the other formulas have been found already.It's because everyone cares about doing as much damage as possible, but not a whole lot of people care about how much damage they take.
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - Russt - 2008-08-07
Oh yes they do.
No one bothers because monster damage doesn't vary much, so after a bunch of people take hits from the same monster they more or less know that squids do ~1.5k touch damage and etc.
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - Hotshot - 2008-08-07
Russt Wrote:Oh yes they do.
No one bothers because monster damage doesn't vary much, so after a bunch of people take hits from the same monster they more or less know that squids do ~1.5k touch damage and etc.
Fine, I misspoke. Nobody cares about the role of defence in the damage they take, compared to the role of weapon/magic attack and stats in the damage they do.
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - Stereo - 2008-08-07
Harrisonized Wrote:Interesting how Maple's been out this long and nobody bothered finding out the wep def formula. Most of the other formulas have been found already.
It's not an easy one to figure out from ingame tests, a lot of things affect it
- monster atk
- player defense
- player str
- player class
- player level
Only 1 of these (defense) is easy to vary without affecting the rest, and there's no stat screen showing how much damage monsters do so the only way to find out is to keep bumping the monster until you've seen the highest and lowest damage it does, which takes longer and costs more than most other ingame formulas.
The trouble is also magnitude - only the monster atk has a noticeable effect (+130 monster atk = ~3k damage for Horntail) while the rest are tiny (+200 defense = ~90 damage difference, +1000 str = ~200 damage difference, +200 levels = ~200 difference again, and the classes affect how these numbers interact - a beginner's str barely changes the damage they take.)
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - Russt - 2008-08-07
Cleric.
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - banditcom - 2008-08-07
You need to be about level 178+ with hp gear, because you also need enough mp.
Best just to have a bishop+drk on both sides, while the one on the left goes up to the middle dividing crack to heal.
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - XtremeBeast - 2008-08-08
Acim Wrote:I believe 1 DEF = 0.5 damage taken off, but I could be wrong and I probably am.
Cheesecake Wrote:im pretty sure it's every 3 def take off 1 damage
The real answer is somewhere between.
I know max iron body (+40 wdef) saves ~16hp. I had a maxed iron body fighter in beta and with the low lvl monsters i fought, it was easier to see how much hp was saved because the damage taken isn't in as large a range.
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - Harrisonized - 2008-08-09
Stereo Wrote:It's not an easy one to figure out from ingame tests, a lot of things affect itWell...
- monster atk
- player defense
- player str
- player class
- player level
Only 1 of these (defense) is easy to vary without affecting the rest, and there's no stat screen showing how much damage monsters do so the only way to find out is to keep bumping the monster until you've seen the highest and lowest damage it does, which takes longer and costs more than most other ingame formulas.
The trouble is also magnitude - only the monster atk has a noticeable effect (+130 monster atk = ~3k damage for Horntail) while the rest are tiny (+200 defense = ~90 damage difference, +1000 str = ~200 damage difference, +200 levels = ~200 difference again, and the classes affect how these numbers interact - a beginner's str barely changes the damage they take.)
I saw the other thread where Ruust found the Heal formula using some data from people testing. He found the formula without an actual number as the base damage.
When finding damage equations, we are given the monster's def and your own attack. Similarly, we are given the monster's attack and our own def. So in a sense, it shouldn't be harder to find the actual formula. It's just that nobody has tried. Why not try then?
I'm curious why the horntail pendant and the zakum helmet combined can give you nearly a 400 damage reduction. (Which goes against the hypothesis that 2.5 def = 1 damage taken off.)
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - Ranylyn - 2008-08-09
Harrisonized Wrote:Well...
I saw the other thread where Ruust found the Heal formula using some data from people testing. He found the formula without an actual number as the base damage.
When finding damage equations, we are given the monster's def and your own attack. Similarly, we are given the monster's attack and our own def. So in a sense, it shouldn't be harder to find the actual formula. It's just that nobody has tried. Why not try then?
I'm curious why the horntail pendant and the zakum helmet combined can give you nearly a 400 damage reduction. (Which goes against the hypothesis that 2.5 def = 1 damage taken off.)
I've done some testing, and it seems that, if there is one set formula, then I obviously have a life that I'm not willing to waste cracking it. For example, at level 33, adding 10 def (Upgrading from a green Bamboo Hat to a Mythril Viking Helm) reduced over 30 damage on my page when I had a Dragon Robe, Venon Gloves, and Mythril Greaves. It wouldn't likely do as much of a difference if you slapped it on someone with work gloves, for instance.
I've come to realize one thing: The more defense you have total, the more each individual point is worth, essentially. Adding 10 defense to 0 def isn't a gamebreaker. Then again, neither is adding 10 def to 600 isn't going to be a gamebreaker either, but it will reduce more (on top of the initial 600 points) than adding the same amount to a lesser armored character.
All I can say for certain is one thing: There's a multiplier or an exponent somewhere in the formula; it is NOT a set damage reduction per point as people say. If you ask me, the whole "3 pts = 1 less dmg" theory was bullshit spouted by the dexless/ lukless community to try to convince others of their superiority.
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - HiiEN - 2008-08-09
Ranylyn Wrote:I've done some testing, and it seems that, if there is one set formula, then I obviously have a life that I'm not willing to waste cracking it. For example, at level 33, adding 10 def (Upgrading from a green Bamboo Hat to a Mythril Viking Helm) reduced over 30 damage on my page when I had a Dragon Robe, Venon Gloves, and Mythril Greaves. It wouldn't likely do as much of a difference if you slapped it on someone with work gloves, for instance.Kind of sounds like how the weapon attack forumlae work.
I've come to realize one thing: The more defense you have total, the more each individual point is worth, essentially. Adding 10 defense to 0 def isn't a gamebreaker. Then again, neither is adding 10 def to 600 isn't going to be a gamebreaker either, but it will reduce more (on top of the initial 600 points) than adding the same amount to a lesser armored character.
All I can say for certain is one thing: There's a multiplier or an exponent somewhere in the formula; it is NOT a set damage reduction per point as people say. If you ask me, the whole "3 pts = 1 less dmg" theory was bullshit spouted by the dexless/ lukless community to try to convince others of their superiority.
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - Stereo - 2008-08-09
All the tests I did pointed toward a 0.5*WDEF reduction on normal statted characters, with typical wdef.
If you move farther away from that (pure str magician, 3-400 extra wdef from "typical gear") you can maybe push it to 0.7*WDEF.
Primarily percentage skills will always be the best way to reduce damage. Achilles, Invincible, Powerguard, Hyperbody, the reason they're effective is that they reduce a percent of the total.
Might as well post numbers here...
Lv.38 Fighter against Street Slimes, 191~198 str (White Baseball Cap = +2 str, Fireman's Axe = +7 str)
3 wdef - Versalmas Hat, Black Strap Shoes, Maple Flag:
110-114 damage
64 wdef - White Baseball Cap, Silver Fitted Mail, Black Strap Shoes, Lionheart:
77-81 damage
97 wdef - Brown Bamboo Hat, Silver Fitted Mail, Black Strap Shoes, Lionheart:
59-64 damage
99 wdef - Mithril Full Helm, Sapphire Fitted Mail, Red Snowshoes, Lionheart:
58-62 damage
145 wdef - Brown Bamboo Hat, Sapphire Fitted Mail, Red Snowshoes, Fireman's Axe, Red Cross Shield:
33-37 damage
+61 def = -33 damage = 0.54 damage per def
+33 def = -17 damage = 0.52 damage per def
+2 def = -1 damage (or -2) = 0.5-1 damage per def... (this was mostly changing item class/levels..)
+46 def = -25 damage = 0.54 damage per def
It's pretty well linear for this case :/ I'll log on my Paladin later to do similar stuff, since it has a much wider range of defense.
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - Russt - 2008-08-09
Harrisonized Wrote:Well...That's not that difficult. Damage taken is harder because we really don't know how it looks, whereas with Heal damage I already was pretty sure it was based off (INT*something+LUK*something)*Magic, etc etc.
I saw the other thread where Ruust found the Heal formula using some data from people testing. He found the formula without an actual number as the base damage.
When finding damage equations, we are given the monster's def and your own attack. Similarly, we are given the monster's attack and our own def. So in a sense, it shouldn't be harder to find the actual formula. It's just that nobody has tried. Why not try then?
I'm curious why the horntail pendant and the zakum helmet combined can give you nearly a 400 damage reduction. (Which goes against the hypothesis that 2.5 def = 1 damage taken off.)
Try using Threaten or Disorder. That may help determine how monster attack plays a role.
Weapon Defense vs. Damage Taken - LazyBui - 2008-08-09
Ranylyn Wrote:If you ask me, the whole "3 pts = 1 less dmg" theory was bullshit spouted by the dexless/ lukless community to try to convince others of their superiority.No, that actually used to be the case. They changed the formula some time after 3rd job came out, I don't remember precisely when.